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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Was wondering what is involved in tuning to 400bhp|PLS|

what sort of costs are involved as well
and what about lag and reliability


cheers



Rich
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I keep reading about all you people spending several thousand pounds on performance mods..I agree if you are taking this thing on the track or are doing 1/4's then fine. but, as a road car is 300bhp ish not enough to for you people...If you get 400bhp then you will only want more. so stick with it you can pretty much blow anything away in standard trim.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree with you. My GSR is completely standard and fast enough for me (although it often doesn't feel that fast). Its just that someone was asking me about tuning potential of an EVO6 and I didn't know the answer and was curious as to what is exactly possible.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
To get to around 340/350 - exhaust/filter/ecu tweaks/boost.
To get to around 380 - new pistons/rods/more boost/ecu tweaks/fuel pump
To get 400 - gasflow head, manifold
400|PLS| - Bigger turbo/ext wastegate/bigger injectors/more ecu tweaks
450|PLS| - 2.2litre stroker kit

Upper limit - probably 550-600bhp, though I suspect anything over 450 is going to be all revs, no torque. Alot of japanese tuning is for 1/4 mile and top speed. American stuff is also 1/4 mile related. UK needs flexibility, for both road and track, so suggest outputs of 450bhp or less for the UK. Roadwise, 350bhp is more than you will ever need. On the track, 400 is plenty - depends on weight.

e.g. a GSR with a stereo etc and 400bhp gives a powertoweight ratio of about 285 bhp/ton (very nice)
my stripped out EVO with 400 bhp gives a powertoweight ratio of 333 bhp/ton -which is the equivalent of the GSR with about 470bhp. So it is all relative. Torque is very important. The RS450 is very quick because it has monstrous torque, even though the bhp figure is around 370bhp. I have seen high-tuned evos with 460bhp, but only around 320lb/ft of torque - making them less flexible at low revs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If you want to get over 400 bhp you need a new turbo/manifold combo which'll look nice too. This includes ECU mods, new piston and conrods, aluminium piping and a new intercooler of course. You won't need new cams to get over 400 bhp. Depending on the size of the turbo and the ECU mapping lag can be huge, but for 400bhp it shouldn't be too bad. Lag will definetely be more than with the standard turbo though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Using a big turbo and expensive mods while not running different profiled cams is pretty damn stupid. You wouldn't be getting 100% from your modifications...so what the hell is the point???:confused:
Blade....not all Japanese tuning houses go for full power 1/4 mile set ups on their cars. There are plenty of others that prefer to have a responsive setup exclusively for track use. As for the yanks.....;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the point is that Richard asked how to get over 400bhp, and cams are not needed for that, foo! Of course they are needed for higher power output but not to get over 400bhp. Also, what is the definition of getting 100% out of your parts ? You have to remember that changing the cams alters the powerband, just as a turbo does, so that in the end if 100% is max. power then you can get the most radical cams, but if you're looking for less peak and more of a continuous powerband then new cams might not be needed at all.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Money! Well, lots. To do it properly, £10k - £15k, depending on what you got so far, and how many safety options you go for.

MichaelK, you are right about the cams. Interesting to hear your thoughts on big turbos, echo's my sentiments. Interestingly, I find that my new light flywheel (and the lighter pistons etc.) makes the engine rev up much faster, which makes the engine feel like it has no lag. One of the reasons why I don't want to introduce a big turbo. Think 400bhp (ish, have to wait and see) will be enough for now. If I go higher, I think I will need a bigger displacement to offset the lag (e.g. 2.2 stroker kit) or not bother.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Richard,

380|PLS| won't cost the world a proper ECU with mapping (Gems 1100, mapping ~1000) pistons and conrods (~3000 fitted), fuel pump (~300 fitted) should do the job, add cams (~1500, fitted) and you'll be over 380. To go over 400 you need a new turbo and manifold added to the stuff before, minus the cams. That'll set you back about 9k. I got a quote of, I think, Br Developments or something, for a complete HKS engine, including headgasket, cams, etc. for 9k which the rally guy I know said was utterly overpriced, he said a Gr. N spec engine will cost about 5k from someone like him, although that engine won't have the fancy turbo and manifold that the HKS engine has.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I did it because you can and they don't pop like Scoobys. :) And for track days / sprints etc. Plus my 'regular drive' is quicker than my EVO so got bored! I have a Phase 4 400 BHP, (398 dyno, not rr result) @1.45 bar constant, conversion EVO 6.5 by RC Developments in Warrington. Consists of Helix 6 plate competition clutch, HKS head gasket, high tensile studs, uprated bottom end bolts, bottom intercooler pipe conversion, 'straight pipe' HKS induction kit, long lambda housing 'expansion' type downpipe, full HKS exhaust with Super Drager 5 back-box and RCD de-cat pipe, FSE valve, RCD uprated fuel pump, APEXi S-AFC and amp; APEXI AVCR. I run it on SUL or Optimax and Millers CVL octane booster. For info Millers CVL just tested by the Ethyl Corperation to give 100.8 RON with Optimax and of course CVL is the only FIA approved octane booster. (Optimax tested at 98.3 RON, 87.2 MON, not 98.6 as they claim!). I also use Millers 10W-50 fully syntheyic racing oil which can give up to 4 BHP! It's just brilliant stuff :) You don't need an uprated turbo or cams for this conversion, Phase 5 (450 BHP) you do. If of any interest contact Jenny or Clive on 01925 575290.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
MichaelK, would you say 400bhp at 1.45 bar with standard pistons, cams etc. is achievable?

I wouldn't...
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
MichaelK, you are right of course. I would suggest spending some on safety devices like water injection and a bigger intercooler.

So about £8k for 380

For more (400|PLS|), bigger turbo etc. - takes you to £12k approx.

Uprate your brakes to cope: takes you to £15k approx (front|PLS|rear brakes)

Uprate your suspension (proflex, drummond etc.) to put the power down £18k (inc wheels, good tyres)

This is all rough estimates of course!
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
All these figures that keep getting chucked around http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/tongue1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle > have any been confirmed on a bench dyno ? or in a car thats attended an organised shoot-out.
Next year we will do just that and invite all those along that want to attend, what was it now..the bu**sh*t stops when the flag drops :)

Should be interesting, what dy'a think guys

Kevin
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I agree - but paper horsepower doesn't prove anything either. It does matter a great deal whether the power is usable, and how it is delivered. I also believe that the rest of the car is important too (suspension,brakes,gears etc.)

Still, you gotta start somewhere. I am up 4 it...
 
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