[Guest]

Finally I've got around to drive to Movit to install the Movit Porker GT 3 front brake kit. This consists of two Monobloc Porker GT3 callipers, 322X32mm rotor (65mm friction ring) with separat alloy bell and steel braided hoses. The pads I drive are the GT 3 sport spec. Additionally he made a centration ring which fits into the hub and allows the wheel to have much more support. Now you can stick them on the hub without the wheel nuts and they already keep in place. An other feature is the mounting of the disc. Now the discs moved 1 cm to the inside to get more clearance between calliper, disc and wheel.
This was the first time I met Guido the owner of movit. Soon I realised what a car nutter he is. It took us around 7 1/2 hours! to fit the kit properly. We first took the Brembo standard **** off, cleaned everything and then began to install the movit kit. During the installment we checked the run-out of my wheel bearings (already 0.05mm new!, just acceptable), the run-out of the disc was only a meagre 0.01mm. As soon as Guido was happy with the fitment we finally installed it, bleeded the brakes etc. Now it was time for the first test drive. Out of the box they felt very good. Everything was ok. The time had come to drive home. On the German autobahn I took it easy as I wanted to bed in the brakes carefully. When I came home the bedding in process was almost done. The next day I increased the braking efforts and tonight I gave them a hammering. The first time I got green fade which is normal for a new pad. Now the stopping power is awesome. But even more impressive is the constant pedal feel and the modulation. You can exactly feel the grip under braking so you can stop on a penny. I can even now get my hands of the wheels at 150km/h (I didn't dare more on a public roadhttp://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/tonguewink1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >) and the car stays stable under hard braking and on light braking. No judder nothing. Also my mate tested it and he was deeply impressed. I almost had to bomb him out of the car:D.
For the possers around us the callipers look the business. Instead of Porker on them I got the Movit letters in white.
To make the story short I'm more than happy. This was the best investment on the car I ever made:). Already binned the standard callipers in the darkest corner of my flat. Now the next step is to upgrade the rear aswell.

I have no connection with Movit, I'm just a EVO nutter and Guido is the brake freak

Mike

PS: I've only tested mine on public roads but Gerrit (N.Ring) has tested them extensively on the Ring and no probs at all

 

[Guest]

I think it would be interesting for people to know how much they cost in comparison to the AP kit.

 

[Guest]

The complete front kit costs DM 4.499 |PLS| salestax. It includes the Monobloc 4-piston calipers, pads, rotors, adapters, steel braided brake lines and hub extenders(!, as Mike explained above).
I belief that is about 1400 GBP!

And they work (and look sexy too)!

Guido told me that group discounts are possible.

 

[Guest]

Yes but except that they are monobloc design they are pretty much the same as the ones we have already...

 

[Guest]

Claudius

again one of your technically minded contributions!

The only thing they have in common is that these porker callipers are produced by brembo but not designed! This is quite a difference.

Additionally it isn't just the different callipers but also the whole design of the disc, the alloy bell (or bowl in your language), the position of the disc etc.

Cheers

Mike

PS: The brakes are very performant as you like to say

 

[Guest]

OK so there's a different disc with separate alu bell (which I have anyway) and they put the disc 1 cm to the inner side and the caliper is a Porsche designed monobloc. Oh, and the have these fantastic (!) braided steel hoses. OK. But then again, what's the difference??? So how are they from 120 to 0? hehehe

 

[Guest]

Mmm - I think I'd rather spend an extra £400 and get the AP discs (and I did!). The cost of the M5 Movit discs are the same as AP, so I guess with our import duty, the AP's come out about the same cost - but are 6 pots.

I guess it was more of a bargain when it was a partial upgrade, scoobymike?

Sure they are good though - Porsche brakes are damn good after all.

 

[Guest]

Tony

I see your point. There are some differences between the AP and Movit Kit. First is the advantage of the monobloc calliper. You apply around 120bar of pressure while braking so the callipers will eventually try to expand under this force. As the monobloc is a one piece design (as used in F1) it's already much stiffer and can resist it better. This gives you a more consistent pedal feel and, this is more important, the callipers press the whole pade surface on the disc. Now look at the AP calliper. It's very long shaped and held together with relatively tiny bolts. So what could happen is that the AP calliper expands and due to the long shape design of the pad it could get bulky. Then secondly because you don't have any steel bolts the whole calliper is lighter. Thirdly you have such a wide choice of pads for these callipers. Fourthly have you ever heard that a porker guy has complained about his brakes and changed them? Next point is that the APs have been developped for race cars. Do you know any race car with the same weight as the EVO (not taking your into account!). As the GT 3 has a very similar weight to the EVO this kit fits from this point of view.

Now we just talked about the callipers. But the disc itself can't be compared to any other disc on the market. The special design (which is also registered by Porsche) gives twice the cooling surface than any other vented disc. I think this has already been covered in other threads.

The disc itself is also differently mounted to give more clearance and so better air flow. The connection of the bell and the discs are designed to allow the disc to expand. The friction ring on these discs is also huge.

There are many other differences. The best prove are the customer reports and N.Ring. There are not a lot of people on this board who do so many km's (miles) on track as he does. He didn't even have to change the pads yet, doesn't need this special racing fluid as the system runs cool, no change of discs ect.

The easiest way is just to call Movit and ask for Guido the owner. He will surely explain the whole stuff in more technical way than I can do as I'm nor a technician nor English is my mother tongue.

Cheers

Mike

PS. It is not my intention to slag off the AP kit, I just want to explain some differences between them and the movit stuff. As long as you're happy with your kit there's no need for any change. The Movit kit represents another alternative.

 

[Guest]

Plus Movit only have 4 pistons...

 

[Guest]

The Mov'it rotors and callipers are far superior to AP's.

Who needs 6 pistons on an Evo. Maybe AP needs 6 to get it to work. The monobloc 4 piston Mov'it callipers are much more refined and are at least one generation ahead in calliper-design. Mov'it offers monobloc 6 pistons as well, for heavier cars (or for posers!).

But, hey, stay with AP if your are happy. I am just very pleased with my Mov'it system: I don`t have to worry anymore about brakes while driving on the track or on the autobahn!

 

[Guest]

I think that the mov'it kit is really nice and the Calipers are good and all the details that are changed will make a difference in stopping power and not warping the discs.
The standard calipers are the same as the ferrari f40, so they are more than 10 years design.
I have the standard calipers with goodrige hoses,CTF discs with separate bell and project µ pads and they don't warp. The new generation porsche calipers are better but keep the same kind of design and are 4 pistons as the standard ones. If you have a good price on the mov'it kit it will be a good upgrade, but for the same price I prefer an ap racing 6 pot kit with bigger discs. And I think that a 6 pot kit will be better than 4 and not useless. The gr.a evo have 8 pistons liquid cooled.
Also, I think that ap brakes are really good and the 6 pot calipers you are talking about is just the fast road ones, but there are other 6 pistons calipers that are lighter more resistant and liquid cooled!
They are probably better than standard porsche ones.

And there are many porshes that change their brakes when they are tuned by sportec, gembella, etc.

 

[Guest]

Maxi is right - lots of Porsche owners upgrade discs - even Porsche offer upgraded discs (ceramics).

I don't want to get into a my brake kit is better than yours contest either!

AP make calipers for road cars as well as racing cars, including TVR, Aston Martin and many more.

I haven't driven the ring, so can't comment, but the best test for a brake kit is a short track on an airfield or short circuit (like Anglesey) where the straights are minimal, the hairpins plentiful and you never get enough speed to really cool the brakes down.

Circuits are generally not that as hard on brakes - depends on the driver. Good drivers rarely brake anyway!

I think it is accepted that AP are excellent, and work well. It is also accepted that all high performance Porsches have good brakes (GT3, Turbo, GT2 etc.). I also accept that Movit must therefore be good, as these are Porsche brakes!

I also accept your rational that the EVO is a similair weight to a GT3, so the brakes should work well.

One interesting point you made was about the weight - I believe the AP kit is generally lighter than the Porsche kit and certainly the standard kit.

Between brakes, wheels and suspension, I am amazed at how much of a difference a reduction of unsprung weight makes to the handling of the car.

 

[Guest]

It seems AP is sacred and British, like TVR and Aston Martin. All very nice, with character, but far from perfect.

To my understanding, the Mov'it callipers should be lighter, because of their Monobloc construction. We should weigh them once! The AP use heavy steel bolts to connect both halves of the calliper. The AP construction should be more prone to flex and their longer shape allows less cooling (argument in favour of 4 pots?). And if I remember correctly, it is fairly complicated to change pads. On the Mov'it callipers, you just undo one bolt to change pads.

The AP rotors use a simple venting system, where hot air can't be dissapated quickly. No holes (less braking performance in the wet) and if holes, than drilled and prone to cracking. The bells are fixed with bolts that don't allow the rotor to expand.

The Mov'it rotors use a patented ventilation system, are made of a high quality material and get a temperature treatment for 6 hours. They offer a bigger surface, better cooling, therefore less pad and rotor wear. They don't get as hot! And the holes are cast!

I love the fixation with 6 or 8 pots; I think Claudius should get 10-pot brakes. What is on your car at the moment, Herr Krämer? Only 6-pots, not even liquid cooled??

 

[Guest]

Maxi

About tuners changing even Porsche brake system. Sportec for example uses the small 993 calliper in connection with a Lucas disc, not good at all. Just check some tests and the Sportec porkers brake worse than the standard cars. And Gemballa, they fit the 6 pot porker calliper with bigger discs on their cars, all porker stuff. The only thing they do is even fit bigger discs, callipers are always from Porsche. They have to earn some money! I haven't ever seen an AP on them although this doesn't matter.

Sorry to destroy some dreams but Porsche doesn't sell the ceramic disc anymore. The GT2 will be delivered with the 6pot callipers but a steel disc instead of ceramic.

Concerning 6 pot. I don't need more pistons as my brakes can easily exceed the grip of my new tyres, feedback is brilliant and consistent and as Gerrit said, the whole system stays unbelivably cool. I can now touch the callipers and discs when before I just would have burnt my hands. And I even haven't done the rears yet.

A recent test in Sport Auto on the short Hockenheim circuit (very hard on the brakes, you can destroy everything there) the new Porker 996 managed to deccelerate in 11.8 m/s2 before the Ameisenkurve which is phenomenal and could only be bettered with slicks.

Mike

 

[Guest]

Shall we settle with:

AP brakes work really well
Movit brakes work really well
Standard brakes are crap
Modified standard brakes are not that good



There!

A point about braking past the tyre's grip - that is absolutely right. Try putting slicks on the car. As soon as I put slicks on, the braking is dramatically different, and that is when you start to overheat the brakes. I don't understand why construction would make them any cooler than the APs with the same ventiliation. THere is very little air to the front EVO brakes - you should add vents (which you were doing at one point..?)

I am not saying I don't believe, just would like an explanation as to why.

Mike, you KNOW I am looking at Movit brakes for the M5 - I still want em! Lots of other owners have bought them, and say they are fantastic (even outbrakes a 911!).

Mmm - interesting, if I buy them - then I will be the only person here to actually own AP AND MOVIT!

 

[Guest]

n.ring - AP isn't sacred, I think people think Brembo are the best for some reason!

Number of pistons in a caliper implies better braking force, but that alone isn't enough, as you know. Tarox make 10 pots, but the pots are very small, and the caliper is no bigger than a 6 pot (so gives the same surface area for the pad).

My AP discs are not drilled, but grooved - as I found that gave better braking performance. Cast holes in your discs should be much better than drilled ones - my drilled discs cracked within 200 miles.

Scoobymike - What happened to the ceramic discs? They not an option anymore on the turbo/GT2???

 

[Guest]

i love both systems

but i prefer 8 pots with 378 mm discs with oz 18 inch magnesium wheels with ferodo 3000 or CM 97 pads

why not buy the ex evo 6.5 makkinen

i wish i was rich

a friend of mine has standard discs and calipers on his car
discs are 294 mm on his cosworth with ferodo 3000 pads it has increddiable stopping power only a brick wall could stop you faster.
only his discs get thinner every day

regards

andre

 

[Guest]

Tony

I can only agree with you. Your comment about those different brake systems represent my view. As I already stated as long as your happy with your setup (in your case AP, in mine movit) why change it. Just let us enjoy the superior braking power and warp-free braking!

I haven't finished the brake cooling system yet. I had a very good one with opened and sealed air intakes from the front bumper and an air scoop directly fitted on the calliper. As the bracket for the movit callipers are different the air scoop isn't suitable anymore so I just have the channels. Maybe next week my dad will invest again some time into the design to solve this issue aswell.

If you wish I can again speak to Guido concerning your Beemer. If we can do something this would be great as you'd be able to compare them to your AP setup. Good idea!

Cheers

Mike

 

[Guest]

The ceramic brakes were much too noisy (especially for those Porsche drivers) and the stopping power and brake modulation was not better than with the standard brakes. Several mags tested them against the standard system and no advantage.
The biggest crap I heard are those Mercedes ceramic brakes in their CL 55 AMG special version. Bernie Eccelstone bought this car for his wife!!!!!!!!!

André

The sixpot kit with 380mm disc and Pagid RS4-4 or 14 would be the system for you!!! Speak to Guido so you could be the first one with an EVO VII with real monster brakes!!!!!!! With those brakes you maybe have to reinforce the suspension so it doesn't get ripped off! Wheel clearance could be a problem though as those callipers are really big!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Mike

 

[Guest]

scoobymike - any help on the beemer discs would be appreciated