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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK.

ECU's off! After reading Rich's (Jackal) post. Much respect. I'm going down the brakes/suspension route first, especially has he drives one of the ultimate trackday tools with great suspension. Followed by instruction!

Just bought the brakes, may go for a suspension upgrade while the brakes are being fitted. What have the other VII owners fitted.

I thought about Eibech or HKS Springs. Or the whole hog - Proflex - Ohlins or Drummond!
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
If you are going the whole hog ...... go for Reiger suspension............we have just fitted it to GpN E7..... and it is the dogs nuts (70mm dampers) ...... (last year we used Jumbo proflex)
Reiger suspension (manufactured in titanium) is currently fitted to the Ford Focus WRC
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
T1000
I too would be interested in any info on Reiger - You're the second guy this week who has recommended them. Would they be suitable for a road car application i.e. Do they come with Dust Seals and low/no maintenance??

Thanks
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
70mm is very big - depending on your application it may well limit the camber angles possible, and wheel sizes (rubbing). My 50mm drummonds are huge as it is!

For a road car with occasional track use, I would seriously recommend the Drummond 40mm dampers as a good compromise, and the 50mm as awesome. Neither require regular maintenance.

For a regular track car, 70mm is too big and too heavy. They are really this big for rallying - when you take off from the ground, maintaining maximum composure and control when you land.

You also need to look at the cooling requirements for the dampers - some require outboard canisters for the oil to ensure adequate cooling.

A track car doesn't get that much movement and needs fine damping control - so single tube, 40mm - 50mm are ideal. Linear springs too.

A road/track car is the biggest compromise - you really want progressive springs on a road car. Drummonds tend to have double progressive springs which are a very good compromise.

Don't get too hung up on springs though in a kit - they only cost a couple of hundred quid to change!

Suspension isn't just about the struts - if you spend big money on the struts, they are pointless without the topmounts, bushing, rollbars, strut braces etc. etc.

When I first fitted my Drummonds, I didn't get enough of an improvement - it wasn't until the roll cage went in and all the various bushing etc. that the stiffness of the car improved enough for the Drummonds to really work.

The standard dampers are pretty good on the road with a good set of springs, just a bit pants on the track.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If you didnt get an improvement with the Drummonds without the roll cage then it confirms what I think about Drummonds.

Specs of the Reigers would be cool; titanium sounds very light. 70mm sounds big though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Claudius

While I am willing to accept your status as suspension king ;) I think you have missed something when you make the statement it confirms what I think about Drummonds . Tony's usage is very different to yours and I believe that in his case, no suspension would work propery without a roll cage. Let me explain.

Tony drives his car on the track. Most of the tracks he likes have very high speed bends and some of those are quite long.This is when the struts are most important. However, with the flexing of the 6 body, it is also where the suspension settings would change most under load. I believe that in this case, no suspension would have made the improvement Tony was looking for.

You drive your car on the best tarmac rally stages in the world (lucky b#####d). You are not driving through long bends flat in top. The cornering you are doing, hairpins etc will benefit most from good struts. In fact, I would guess that stiffening the body with a roll cage would only make a small difference to your driving and therefore you see a greater benefit impediately from your suspension set up.

Please don't flame me on this. If you believe that I am wrong, I am willing to debate and learn.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks guys for the comments - will see Blades Drummond suspended car and make the decision then on which way to go!

 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How about Ohlins ?

I use Ohlins , but I have been considering Drummonds 60mm. I have a set of 50mm for a WRX if someone needs a set.
How much are the Reigers running ?

Robert VanLane
Aomori Japan
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Simon

Why would I flame you? I did not mean to offend Blade or anybody, I just meant to say that the DMS are, telling only from their specs, not as good as, say Öhlins. But you are absolutely right in saying that that depends on use. I have the problem of not being able to picture people to use an Evo on a fast track because that is not what the car was built for initially. For track use, the DMS may actually be fine or even very good! For small back roads with lots of tight bends and small jumps etc they theoretically arent. But then again, I think a lot of problems stem from the fact that people in generally and me in this particular case talk about things they havent tried. Maybe his suspensions are just as good.

Fitting a rollcage onto a rewelded car is a very good idea. I have been in one and was AMAZED about how little (if any) body roll that car had. I would fit one as well, but need to be able to take more than just one passenger with me. I have been thinking about getting one of those Bozz SPeed cages but am not sure how good they are. But they might be useful if I tip over on the ring, just so I dont break my neck and can go on teasing you guys (gently) on here. I am very happy to follow Tony's car's evolution on here and never meant to say that his suspension are ****.

Can you explain to me why the car flexes more in high speed corners compared to throwing it into a hairpin? I didnt understand that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think Claudius misunderstood my statement. I didn't say there wasn't an improvement - just that improvement was not enough. The main benefit from them was better control of the car, but the rigidity and precision comes from the bushing, cage, strut braces, solid mounts etc. I needed all of that to be happy!

They were still very, very good - just not good enough!

Claudius, I thought you rated Drummonds?

Ohlins are probably the best - just very expensive.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
DMS are very good suspensions, without a doubt. I just always think the best is just good enough, so I wouldnt get DMS if I can get Öhlins, albeit at a higher price. As long as you have monotube dampers, even if the gas containers are not separate, that is a huge improvement over the standard suspensions.
I totally understand that you came to the conclusion that DMS are better value for money, given how overpriced Öhlins are. And I agree with you. But I got Öhlins anyway, and will get A032s instead of PZeros, even though they last less long. But that's just me.
It's not very easy for me with this no limits mentality to make myself understood on a board where some people talk about lowering springs or mpg!
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I agree. I found it difficult to get suspension for the car when I did it (nearly a year ago now).

Wanted Proflex originally, but they just failed to deliver anything. Ohlins are really expensive - and I couldn't afford them at the time. Hadn't heard of Drummonds - think I was one of the first EVO's in England to have them (not sure if anyone else does have them).

When you come over Claudius, I should let you drive mine (and you should let me drive yours) and compare the difference. It would be interesting, no?
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No pb Tony, but I have never driven RHD, even during my stay in the UK.
Plus, you cannot really compare the 2 if you have a rewelded car and roll cage!
But you are welcome to try out the suspensions.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't know how to do the conversion. Rates in lbs are 550 (f) and 575 (rear), which is 100 more than they were recently.

Anyone know how to convert?
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just checked, we always say kilos but in fact spring rates are measured in N/mm.
If I convert 550 poundals to Newtons, I get 76. This seems indeed to be your spring rate. Mine is 80, so basically the same.
I am surprised you have harder springs in the back! How is that? Is that a special track setup or sthg? Or are you experimenting with this as well? I guess if you want different springs you just write a cheque :D LOL ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Claudius,

Are you sure your spring rates are measured in N/mm, Some companies use N/mm, others including most japanese companies, HKS etc use kg/mm. its just that if your rates are maesured in N/mm they seem a little hard for road use, or are all roads in Monte Carlo super smooth!
To convert from lbs/in to kg/mm divide by 56, which makes blades rates 9.8 kg/mm fr and 10.2 kg/mm rr.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think Clive is right - my springs would make you kill yourself after one day on the road. They are very hard.

Why stiffer at the back? Dunno, experimentation got us to that position. I do have more weight in the back, with the water tank and battery, so the weight distribution is different. Just seems to work. What do you have front-to-rear, the same or different?
 
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