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Discussion Starter #1
What would happen if I put a 2.2l kit in my engine but keep the OEM TME ti turbo? I mean the engine will gain a lot of reliability and some torque, but there seems to be an issue with revving the engine up afterwards? Will this setup be better than OEM with the same boost? Finally, can you set this up with just an ITC or do you need a complete engine management system ie Motec Gems etc?
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Interesting question.

In my opinion, the engine will obviously be stronger -as it is the same effect as replacing the internals. The torque for a given boost figure should be much higher, and depending on cams etc, so should the power. The main benefit should be in off-boost performance - and would probably mean no lag at all!. I fear the turbo would be too small for the engine though, and that the limit to ultimate power would still be the turbo, so 385bhp, maybe 400 if you can get that to work (MC seems to be heading there).

Your torque would be much higher. You probably would not need to bother with mappable boost then - just run 1.6 bar all the way. You wouldn't need the Motec or GEMS - just remap the standard ECU or use the Apexi you have.

I think it is a waste of money if you don't intend to go for a bigger turbo. The revving capability isn't really a problem as the standard turbo is all done around 7000rpm anyway, and the stroker kits should be good to 7500rpm, however a longer stroke doesn't rev as easily as shorter stroke.

Isn't the stroker kit quite alot more than just new pistons/rods?

There is so little lag with the standard car, that I think the stroker only makes sense when getting a (much) bigger turbo, e.g. the TD67-25g. Even my new turbo has no more lag in real terms.

The lighter flywheel is better though, but you don't need a stroker to do that.

Just my opinion so don't shoot me!
 
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Discussion Starter #3
with the 2.2l you have a 10% advantage straight away, also that is 10% more exhaust gases, which mean the turbo will spin up even quicker etc..

so if you keep your standard turbo your car will be explosive at the bottom end, the top end will be also better by around 10% roughly although things are not directly proportional but you should be able to achieve 400bhp with the standard turbo.

and also as blade mentioned you can afford to get a bigger turbo, although i don't agree with blade regarding getting a really big turbo the car beomes a complete dog to drive off boost like day to day driving. at the end of the day nothing wrong with a car that has only 400bhp but flies every time you touch the throttle :D

sam
 
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Discussion Starter #4
That's what I thought, Sam. What about the ignition timing? Do you think a ITC will become necessary? Or let's say it will, but will it be enough?
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Claudius, you are just trying to make it complicate!!!
WTF do you want as final result?
Do you need a shy 380bhp or do you want to compete with 'big' evos, as Blade, Roy, Manuel???

Do you think that you will be able to drive a 670bhp evo as Manuel Go does, or aren't your OHLINS good enough?
Opsss, sorry, I know, you don't want to spend a lot in fuel! That's why you have an evo...

If you just want a few more bhp, get an hks head gasket, an itc, and new cams...
If you want to get a group b evo just get everithing with a big turbo and bang, and stop complaining about the low revs and lag! do you want a diesel?
 
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Discussion Starter #6
sam - actually the T67-25g isn't that big, and with a stroker kit there shouldn't be much difference in lag to standard.

I too don't agree with a huge turbo on a road car.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Claudius,

have you got a tme gsr or rs? The rs has the same TD05-16G6 as the other e6 and we have a map for this thanks to lightspeed. however no-one has been able to find the compressor map for the TD05-15GK2 that is on the tme gsr.

Idealy you want to map out your operating line onto the compressor chart to check that you are within the operating envelope. this would need boost and volumetric efficiency vs engine speed info etc. see the links on the thread teach your self turbos.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
hi blade
we really won't know if it is going to have as much lag as standard or not with the 25g? unless someone has tried it and can tell us.

the point i was making if you restrain the car to only 400bhp. you will have a car that will have less lag than standard ( the could be bad), the drive train should be able to take it, maybe only the clutch will need replacing, i am not sure if a fuel pump upgrade alone will be enough or will the injectors will need to be upgrades as well.

ITC will always be a good idea, but to be honest i would get a complete ecu and sell the rest of your stuff. i am sure you will get a lot of buyers for it.

personally i think maintaining a 400bhp car will be easier and cheaper than a 600bhp car that needed parts ordered from all over the world?

just my view really. may aim over the next 2 years is to get 300-320 at the wheels, i will be happy with that. and i am sure there will be more than one way to get there.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Original Post:
Claudius,

have you got a tme gsr or rs? The rs has the same TD05-16G6 as the other e6 and we have a map for this thanks to lightspeed. however no-one has been able to find the compressor map for the TD05-15GK2 that is on the tme gsr.

Idealy you want to map out your operating line onto the compressor chart to check that you are within the operating envelope. this would need boost and volumetric efficiency vs engine speed info etc. see the links on the thread teach your self turbos.
Mine is a TME RS2, ie LHD TME with A/C, electric windows and mirrors but not climate control, quick steering (are they all or not?), ABS and AYC. No sunroof though http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/tongue1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >

I'll have to check the turbo to see which one it is.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Original Post:
hi blade
we really won't know if it is going to have as much lag as standard or not with the 25g? unless someone has tried it and can tell us.

the point i was making if you restrain the car to only 400bhp. you will have a car that will have less lag than standard ( the could be bad), the drive train should be able to take it, maybe only the clutch will need replacing, i am not sure if a fuel pump upgrade alone will be enough or will the injectors will need to be upgrades as well.

ITC will always be a good idea, but to be honest i would get a complete ecu and sell the rest of your stuff. i am sure you will get a lot of buyers for it.
Gearbox seems fine for now... :D My JUN light flywheel and the CUSCO carbon clutch plate are on order ans should be here end of next week.

I thought of getting the stroker kit with OEM turbo and gain through volume AND ALSO COMPRESSION since with that type of internals I will consider fitting a head gasket half the width of OEM :D That should make it really nasty! :D I talked about ECUs to a guy in France who knows about them and he said the Apex'i Power FC map is more precise than the Motec M48pro (he mentioned 20 slots over the whole range instead of 16 for the motec) and works well together with the AVCR. Remember I want to keep the AVCR to change boost settings?
 
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Discussion Starter #11
I really would not say anithing of the following to someone that just say my evo is more than enough for me or I don't want to spend all my money in my car .
That would be fine.
But when someone like Claudius, that is always complaining on how everybody else is slow, on how he's evo is slow, and that is always talking about how to make his evo faster and can afford to do it...

That thread is getting funnyer every day! LOL
Now the power fc is better than the motec, LOL!!!
A month ago he was told that it was ****!

And that idea of getting a complete jun kit with a standard turbo is like fitting
magnesium wheels to a fiat panda 4x4!
If you don't want to spend a lot more money you just keep the parts you have and add cams, itc and head gasket to get 390bhp with standard engine as rc development do.
If you want to go above that you can fit hks pistons and rods.
otherwise(I know you are too tight to spend your money) you sign a cheque and get a jun engine with 600bhp. For the price of a new M3 you will have a fast car.

But you only look after torque at low rpm and no lag! Are you always at 3500 rpm?
I know that now you have 1.6bars boost, and 30 more bhp, if you feel that fast!
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you for your constructive comments, Dario.

Would someone else like to add to this? Maybe Manuel?
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Claudius,

did you get that turbo sizing spreadsheet i sent you? I'll not be picking up my work e-mails until Monday. You can e-mail me on [email protected]

I don't know whether your tme rs2 will have the td05-15 or the -16. I've just had a look in the workshop manual for the tme and that does not list the turbos as being different from the standard car. let me know if you can see where it is shown on the turbo itself and i'll have a look at mine (although its raining cats and dogs and blowing a hooley here so maybe later).

maxi,
don't be so unkind. you know claudius needs more power than you and stiffer springs coz of all his ice.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Claudius,

If you want humongous torque from low to midrange, then the stroker kit is a great benefit. I havent tried the Jun stroker personally, but I do have experience in Toda. Personally I like to quality of the Jun kit.

My experience with the Toda kit is that it does give big torque. But runs out of breathe at top end. That time I was using the 3037S. Maybe it was the tuning or maybe it was the lower rev limit. I haven't had the chance to dyno that particular setup.

Your plan to use the stock turbo with the stroker is reasonable in my opinion. Maybe I am second guessing your plan or maybe I am wrong. But I think you want to try out the stock turbo with stroker first before investing on a bigger turbo. At least you will have the chance to see the benefit of the stroker alone and in the future, with bigger turbo. But I think you will not be satisfied with the stroker alone with stock turbo, I can tell you that. You will need the larger turbo to compensate for the lack of top end. I would recommend at least the 2835R spec from HKS. It is a great compromise between the stock turbo and 3037S.

Good luck on your quest for more power :)
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Original Post:
Claudius,

did you get that turbo sizing spreadsheet i sent you? I'll not be picking up my work e-mails until Monday. You can e-mail me on [email protected]

I don't know whether your tme rs2 will have the td05-15 or the -16. I've just had a look in the workshop manual for the tme and that does not list the turbos as being different from the standard car. let me know if you can see where it is shown on the turbo itself and i'll have a look at mine (although its raining cats and dogs and blowing a hooley here so maybe later).
QUOTE]

Yes I did Oli, thank you very much. I replied to your work email saying that I was very happy about you caring so much but that I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT! Can I change parameters there and see how it affects the others? I guess that would be the whole point of it. Some clarification would be really appreciated! :)

Sorry to hear about the weather. It was really nice and sunny here!
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Original Post:
Claudius,

Your plan to use the stock turbo with the stroker is reasonable in my opinion. Maybe I am second guessing your plan or maybe I am wrong. But I think you want to try out the stock turbo with stroker first before investing on a bigger turbo. At least you will have the chance to see the benefit of the stroker alone and in the future, with bigger turbo. But I think you will not be satisfied with the stroker alone with stock turbo, I can tell you that. You will need the larger turbo to compensate for the lack of top end. I would recommend at least the 2835R spec from HKS. It is a great compromise between the stock turbo and 3037S.

Good luck on your quest for more power :)
Manuel,

I couldnt have stated it better than you just did. This is EXACTLY the plan! I was recommended to get the compression up with a thinner head gasket because the internals can take it. 0.6mm. So the car makes more power at same boost.

Isnt a 3037 MUCH bigger than a 2835? I also want to wait until I know about turbos and understand all about compressor wheels, internal diameter, mag etc etc before buying a turbine. I will follow Lightspeed web links and buy some books. Then I'll see.
 
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