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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
sam has come up with what i consider to be the most real world and accurate test.
timing accelaration from rev to rev
this way ,by being in the wrong gear for some of the tests,we should get an indication of the type of power delivery.
i.e. driveability.
first we need to agree on the measured revs
i suggest ,as well as lower gear times,we concentrate more on 4th and 5th gear,
maybe do three timed runs for each test ,and take the average of these .
suggestions for the tests please ????
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
MC,
Agree that it is one of the better ways to test but surely in 4th and 5th gear you would have to find a private airfield or similar to get a run high into the revs unless you have the RS ratio gearbox......
Would it not be better to use 3rd gear as this way, most people can test this on a public road and remain within legal speeds.

Try 3000-6000 rpm as a first shot and see what results people get.
Also, do we agree that it needs to be sat at the starting revs before booting it otherwise you could get people who time it as you are going through the revs which will provide a quicker time.

Andy
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
yes,first mistake
i think it should start holding at that particular revs,then apply throttle
4th and 5th are the best indicators,particularly at low revs,i.e. the wrong gear for the situation normally speaking
keeping the speeds below 100 should be ok
after all,torque is what you use most of the time

and anyone who lies,belongs in the my cars got 500 brake corner at the local pub
you are only fooling yourselves.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Interesting idea - never really cared about top speeds, would much rather concentrate on useable acceleration. But how to time it? I'm a complete novice, so I've no idea whether you're talking about timing equipment wired in to your car or whether you're going to hold a stopwatch in one hand ???!!

I've always read how that GSR in Autocar was supposedly extensively modified to get its acceleration figures .. but the 1/4 mile time was exactly the same as the Evo 5 and the STi 4 ..?

Anyway, it would be a fascinating comparison, quite apart from the fact that I'm sure new-ish unmodded EVOs like myself would come at the bottom. At least getting timings for one gear takes driving ability out of the equation...
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
stopwatch sounds good enough to me
0 to 60 , and top speed is for kids to argue over in the playground
if i overtake anything,its normally travelling at between 40 to 80 mph
40 to 100 is real world ,usefull, enjoyable,safe and realistic use
unless you are out chasing 750,s ,then you need everything !!
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
agreed, to minimise timing errors you want as long a time period as possible. Hence maybe 2000-6000rpm in 4th is the best. From memory this will give a speed of about 110 with a gsr?

However this would only allow gsr to be compared with gsr and rs with rs due to different gearing unless 4th in a gsr is about the same as 5th in an rs?
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'll try - though my standard GSR has never felt that fast, so I may end up looking verrry slow if I admit my timings on here.

I did see an ad somewhere for a box that you put in your car and it claims to measure your acceleration - no wiring or fitting needed, so it must use a motion sensor to detect your g, I suppose. As long as it doesn't roll about, I guess it might work. Though I don't see how it could tell your speed - a constant speed would look the same as being stationary to it. Also, I don't think it was pennies.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How about 0 to 100 to 0.
30 -100 through the gears.


Custard - I did miss this thread first time round - sorry!
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
0 to 100 to 0 is starts and brakes and driver
a different test in my book.

for eng power,i feel 2000rpm held,then measured at 4,5 and 6 k indicates power and torque and lag (or lack of lag ?)
and 2000rpm in 4th or 5th is the wrong gear for normal driving.
i was hoping for suggestions so we could all agree the test
and for the first time in my life,i WAS NOT going to cheat !
unless my times were really bad,obviously !!!

should i leave the babyseat in to counteract the weight of your helmet and gloves ??
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, so we assume the car is rolling, time from 2000rpm to 7000rpm, in all gears. Take times for the increments too, if you can (relevant to the higher gears)....

We could just go to an airfield and try this...
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What about measuring corner g?

Actually, we could measure all these things quite well with my AP performance meter. Portable from car-to-car too.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Mc Custard and amp; Blade

I think a timed run in 4th gear from 2500rpm upto 7000rpm with the car rolling at 2500 then start the clock when the driver boots it and amp; stopping as the needle hits 7k (2K would be way off boost ) This would cut out driver skills and amp; just show the true pulling power of the engine through out thre whole rev range , ie initial spool up , torque curve right through to peak horse power , plus the longer this timed run is the less the small margins of error ie peoples reactions will matter to the results. Doing the run in 5th would be better but a lot of people won`t like pulling 150|PLS| mph on public roads
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
DaveD6 - what about gearing differences? My 4th gear is different to MC's - shorter ratio. How will that affect the results, or will it just be a difference in road speed. However road speed means a difference in aerodynamics, and hence drag - and hence engine performance.

Hold on, what about aerodynamics and weight - surely that will present a larger load to the car anyway, and hence affect the figures?

EEK!
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I've always read how that GSR in Autocar was supposedly extensively modified to get its acceleration figures .. but the 1/4 mile time was exactly the same as the Evo 5 and the STi 4 ..?

... but its trap speed was much higher (implying that it did indeed have much more power than a standard car).

Ian.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
DaveD6 - what about gearing differences? My 4th gear is different to MC's - shorter ratio. How will that affect the results, or will it just be a difference in road speed

Yes ... in-gear tests are only relevant for comparing the performance of engines in cars with exactly the same gearing.

Your shorter 4th gear would result in greater acceleration, even if your car had exactly the same power/torque to the comparison car. You could fit a 1.1 litre Fiat Punto with a 20:1 final drive ratio and it would thrash your car from 2000-5000rpm in 4th gear. That wouldn't make it any quicker though.

Aerodynamics and drag only really start to become significant over 70mph.

The only real tests for straight-line performance or power delivery (same thing really) are speed-to-speed tests but, for obvious reasons, these are harder to measure accurately given that most cars' speedos are rubbish.

Ian.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Driod and amp; Blade

Totally agree that different gearing will effect times , only useful if the person your comparing with has the same spec .

I have not worked it out , but I believe that 4th in a GSR is nearly the same as 5th in an rs ?

If not your back to using timing gear and organising an airfield event or similar , could be a good excuse for a get together though :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
hi there

i don't know how i missed this thread!!

going form 2000rpm is quite important for me to see how quick the turbo spooled up after different mods. for example if i floor it from 2000evs in 4th gear i get 1.4bar by 3100revs :D.

i have done 2000-7000revs, 60-100mph, 50-100mph, 30-100mph.

i am far too sympathetic to do stand starts.

i can't remember what times i did but
2000-7000revs in 13.0 best-13.5 4rh
30-100 9.5 secs through the gears. roughly i can't remember i know it was 9 something




sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
um..i've been doing this for months and must have posted my data logs many times before (yes my ecu that cost 500 pounds includes datalogging too...)

anyway it is true that can only compare cars with the same gearing and also everyone needs to do it on the same stretch of road with same atmospheric conditions, etc, etc

test needs to be done in same gear

however here is my data log again 2000-6300 (30 to 100mph) in 4th to get some actual figures 6-gsr
times on right are seconds as it logs every 1/4 of a second

RPM MAP WG% OXY INJ TPS KNK ADV
2124 111 100 84 11 80 2 17 0 floor it
2175 119 100 84 12 100 1 16
2239 123 100 85 14 100 1 15
2297 126 100 85 14 100 3 15
2350 129 100 86 15 100 2 14 1
2393 134 97 86 16 100 3 13
2452 136 97 87 17 100 2 13
2520 140 97 86 18 100 1 13
2579 144 97 86 19 100 2 13 2
2641 150 97 86 21 100 2 12
2722 155 97 86 23 100 1 12
2796 162 97 82 25 100 0 10
2869 171 97 85 28 100 4 9 3
2964 181 97 86 32 100 2 9
3059 193 97 86 37 100 6 6
3165 209 97 87 46 100 4 5
3291 227 97 88 52 100 91 4 4
3395 246 98 89 58 100 25 5
3514 255 94 88 61 100 12 5
RPM MAP WG% OXY INJ TPS KNK ADV
3811 255 84 88 66 100 20 5 5
3936 255 80 88 67 100 150 5
4087 255 75 88 70 100 43 4
4206 255 70 88 72 100 16 4
4369 255 65 88 75 100 39 4 6
4479 255 60 88 90 100 22 4
4600 255 55 91 92 100 39 4
4734 255 50 91 96 100 37 4
4845 255 45 91 98 100 45 4 7
4947 255 40 91 99 100 36 3
5054 255 36 91 99 100 32 3
5166 255 31 90 99 100 56 3
5291 255 26 90 99 100 31 3 8
5374 250 22 90 99 100 44 3
5493 249 20 90 99 100 50 5
5592 248 19 90 99 100 39 5
5677 248 17 90 99 100 69 5
5782 246 16 90 99 100 62 5 9
5855 247 15 89 99 100 57 5
5967 247 14 89 99 100 50 7
6044 245 13 89 99 100 61 7
RPM MAP WG% OXY INJ TPS KNK ADV 10
6246 244 12 88 99 100 66 7
6299 246 12 88 99 100 84 7 10.5
6374 245 11 88 99 100 63 7
6462 246 10 88 99 17 47 26

andrew
 
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