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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi there
has anyone tried the sports ACD for the 7 yet? i know some may have already but don't know who:)

basically altough the car is great, the handling does not seem as progressive as i would like it to be. the back end is far too twitchy for my liking. i had more confidence pushing my previous car ( UK scoob) around corners than my evo 7 although i am cornering faster around corners with the 7. does that make any sense to anyone !!

basically when my 7 breaks away traction it is usually with happens very quick with no warning. you have to be ready to plant that throttle all the time :D

thanks for your help

sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
sam

you have a gravel ecu and a tarmac ecu

ill bet that the tarmac ecu will be more real wheel biased if you want youre car more like a subaru (understeer) try to drive more with the snow setting

or you could try the gravel ecu don t know yet how it reacts

i have no experiance yet my 7rs is on its way but ill buy me the tarmac ecu at once i love oversteer

maybe someone could tell us his experiance with ralliart acd ecu


regards

andre
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sam

Sounds like the tyres to me,the A046's are quite grippy in the wet but not very progresive when they break away.The reason you are cornering quicker but it doesn't feel like it is down to the ayc and acd which makes it very easy to push to the limits which inturn takes away some of the driver involvement and feedback,the scooby was probably more rewarding to drive because you had to work harder to get it round corners.

Hope this helps
Sav
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sam

I know that SuperL has fitted tis. Hopefully he will be online at some point and give you his views. I know I am getting one :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Guys
I have one fitted (K1 model). It is superb and in my opinion should be the VERY first mod you do to a 7. It makes the car so much more progressive and closer (I said closer Cluadius :) :)) to an LSD it's untrue - The car is now very much more predicatable than my old 6 GSR and can be steared on the throttle (which it is, OFTEN!) They also do a K2 version which they call Japan Rally spec - A buddy of mine has it fitted to his car and that's good too but in his opinion puts too much stress on the system as the pressures are hiked again (OK for rally boys who strip their cars down regularly and change components and stuff but could cause damage long term). They did back to back tests and proved without a shodow of a doubt that the Sports ACD's improve the Centre Diff lock response time significatly and because of the increase in pressure made the whole process smoother, more progressive and more solid. It definately feels as if it's changed the AYC Characteristics.
I had some fun with a pal of mine last week - he followed me down a country lane we both know well in his slightly moded 7 (S02's Eibach's, grommit out, SupaDragger and induction kit) we were both on Gravel setting and you could see me visibly pulling away through the bends as his car turned in, understeered, oversteered on every turn as the electronics were trying to keep up with his demands.
He is meaner than me and he has ordered one!
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
hi superl

do you what it actually does? does it make the car more rear bais, more front bais or does it just improve the general characteristics of the acd?
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The product comes with a typical one page Japanese to English translated overview which is pants. You would not buy this product on the strength of this! Sam, it basically increases the response time and pressure in the centre diff allowing it to lock more quickly and apply more pressure to keep the thing locked. I cannot be certain, but to me, it feels as if it's also improved the AYC characteristics too as I cannot beleive that the Centre Diff alone can make such a dramatic change to the handling (I am no expert here so don't flame me!).
The car that has the K2 unit fitted is not a Ralliart car but a full blown Grp N Rally car so no warranty issues!! They along with Ralliart recommended the K1 as this unit fits best a fast road application without putting undue stress on the entire system. This recommendation was done after REAL testing and not guess work.
Remember also that my car has Eibach springs, SO2s and fast road geometry set up (only difference with the other 7 is mine has light weight wheels and maybe some additional BHP :) :)) so the comparison we did last week was as scientific as I'm going to get it.
Not trying to sell you anything here guys and I make no gain from recommending this. If you are wary, all interested should put together and by ONE UNIT and try it in all your cars - 400 quid between 5 - 10 shouldn't break the bank!
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
hi Super

i suppose if it was not good they would not have made it? i need the car to handle at its best for track use as i really don't drive my car that hard on the normal roads. progressive is how i would like my car to be, and right now it is definitley not, almost all or nothing. i spoke to couple of friends who have 6s and they said the same thing about their car and they hate the AYC. actually one person that i know who have had some racing experience hates his evo 6 and does not feel confidence enough to drive it as hard as he used to drive his scoob.

i got cought out couple of times myself, as i almost spun the car in the first week!!!!!! i did not go above 4500revs either. it just seem that the car will handle so well and go so fast around corners until you reach a certain point and bang it just wants to swap ends. OK i did get it back both times by planting the throttle but it was close.

i think i am going to give it ago anyway and see. i am doing knockhill on the 17th of march and i have got an advanced driving course on the 14th of march ( andrew welsh ) at crail so that should hopefully teach me how to tame the beast.


sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
One of the things here is that ACD needs to have less locking in order to make rear end of the car more nimble. By opening it more, AYC is actuall getting more power to deal with and it looks like it is doing more work. Quicker locking feature is needed when car starts to rotate and you start to use your steering to compensate for it. That is when ACD gets more locked (and faster is better in this case) to allow front end to do more work as well as the inside rear wheel.

Fedja
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
fedja

so are you trying to say when we get the acd to lock quicker and with more pressure as the ACD K1 unit does it will make the AYC WORK LESS and give the front end more grip?

sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If the AYC worked less, wouldn't that increase understeer? According to a discription I have of the AYC, AYC tranfers torque to the outside rear wheel to reduce understeer and improve traction. Therefore, if you have the ACD working less, there will be more understeer or in your case, Sam, I suspect that means less oversteer. The discription also states that The ACD is controlled together with the AYC and Sports ABS to deliver both excellent stabitity and handling . From that I think we can deduce that the ECU would have an effect on the AYC as well. Or can we?
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
and amp;gt; so are you trying to say when we get the ACD to lock quicker and with more pressure
and amp;gt; as the ACD K1 unit does it will make the AYC WORK LESS and give the front end more grip?

Hmm, it looks like we will have to go deep here!! :) In general, cars with LSDs in the center and in the back have a built in feature - to understeer! Or more precise would be to say that LSDs don't allow the car to loose the rear end that easy. Rear end starts coming around when you start loosing the traction back there. Loosing of the traction means spinning of the rear wheel(s) (assuming we are talking about throttled applications) will cause difference in the speed between the front and the rear. That will make center LSD to starts locking more. Since it was more opened moment ago, more power was in the rear. By having the center locked you get more power to the front than earlier. That extra power basically makes the front end to push. To make it worse, rear end gains the traction and starts going where the wheels are pointing to (means less rotation of the rear), which creates even more push (or wash out effect).

Now there are different ways to fix this bad habit. One of them is AYC. That one sends more power to the outside wheel and makes car more loose there. At the same time inside wheel is not following the outside one (which mean that it is spinning at the lower speed), so overall speed of the rear end of the car (from the center diff point of view) doesn't increase as much as it would be in the car with conventional diff. So, center diff doesn't sense much of the difference and doesn't have to send extra power to the front. That helps two things. One is that front end stays where it was and doesn't go wider, and the second one is that rear end keeps rotating, so whole car is cornering way better. That is kind of the way it was done on the EVO 6.

In the more extreme situation, this combination is not enough (at least according to the Mitsubishi), since front end would still get some extra power from time to time (I guess, for the tighter turns this would be a bigger problem). So, solution for this is an ACD! With the control of the central distribution, car's ECU has even more freedom to control how the car is going to behave, and that is the beauty of it!

But there is something tricky about the way this works and this is what creates most of the confusion. ACD can either be fully opened (power goes wherever is easier - note no direct control in here like the AYC has) or it can be fully locked. In that case you get 50-50% power/torque distribution.

Now we can go back to the original question about the AYC having to work less or more depending on the ACD mode. If your ACD locks quicker and with more power, than AYC will have to do more work in order to keep car to rotate. If it doesn't, car will have more push, and that wouldn't be the best thing. But, by having quicker and stronger ACD in the car helps to quicker gain control of the car and stabilizes it better than the stock one. That helps in the situation when you have to counter steer or braking, for example. Remember that both ACD and AYC are controlled by the same unit and they always work together to achieve the same goal. It would be the same as having faster reacting joystick in your hand. You can move faster your objects on the screen, but you don't use that extra speed most of the time. It is just nice to know it is there!! :)

Of course as any control system, too much of the gain could make the while system to oscillate more or even to make it unstable. I have seen a mouse cursor moving too fast! :)

Hope I helped a bit in here....

Have a good one

Fedja
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
cheers Fedja that is a great explaination

so the question is will adding the newer control unit make the car more progressive when it breaks away or will it just raise the whole handling game. form what you have said it sounds like by adding this newer control unit we are going to improve the conrnering speed and improve braking as well.

sorry for sounding a bit slow but all this electroni diffs seem to confuse the hell out of me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
quick question:

is the sports acd just a replacement for the ayc/acd ecu or does it involve mods to the center diff/rear diff?
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
the it is just a replacment ecu to the acd/ayc.

i have phoned co ord sport today and they said that they don't have them in stock and they will not get them until the 22nd of march. so i have got one kept aside form me :).

what they said though is there is two types the K1 which is a tarmac setting and the K2 which is gravel. can you please confirm that superL. the one i have got ordered is the tarmac one.

the disappoiting thing though is that even co ord sport could not tell me what it actually does. apart from the fact that they sold loads of them to ralliteams.

sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi Sam
It's the K1 you need....
As I said, the documentation that comes with the box is pants. That's why the Coord guys couldn't give you any better explanation.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sam i have used to full effect on quite a few occasions and it works a treat, just last week on a famous stretch of Rally type road in very wet weather s-bends, hairpins you name it, in gravel the car just would not step out all i got was just more grip which was fantastic, soon as i put it back into tarmac it was made more fun with still tremendous grip.
What a tool!
J
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
thanks hunter

so you have the full effect one is that the gravel spec K2?

have you tried the tarmac spec one K1?



i have got mine on order but it will be 6 weeks before it arrives :( anyway it will tie up the start of the track season :D
 
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