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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Elo chaps.. Just got back into work. (had to take Monday off).. I went down to this Rolling Road day in Chesterfeild(derbyshire) on Saturday.. At John Noble Motorsport .. Performance ford where there and I heard a redline or is it revs photographer tried to sneak in as well!

When I got there I was amazed at how many Ford's where parked up! Cosworth after Cosworth after RS Turbo etcetc..! As for the jap side of things, well.. I was the Only EVO at the RR day(wich was nice) and also a few scooby's, some P1's a 22b and a few scooby wagons.. I would just like to say thanks to Evoboy, who met me there, (sound guy) and to dingy for the day! All look out for next months Performance Ford (or month after) and banzi maybe!

And all the RR charts and pictures of the day have been put on a site here!-- http://www.derbyshire-rsoc.co.uk/rrday/

ps- I was the biggest BHP jap car at the event, standad as well! :) (well exhaust and airfilter)

Thanks again!
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Why was your max torque at 4180 rpm? this seems too high. Std mitsi figures give peak torque at 3000. Nice flat bit at over 250ftlb on the torque curve from 4000 to 6000 though. yum yum.

Is yours an RS with low gearing as i note that the max speed was 113?

The cossies were certainly making some high peak powers, but talk about on/off switch. Shows what you can do with lowered compressions, radical cams, overly large turbos and massive boost. Can't be that pleasant even on a racetrack. Blade take heed;).
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Oli,
DJ's Evo is a GSR , power runs r done in third hence the 113 mph max speed .
Altho peak torque is at 4180 rpm most of it is available at about 3200. As an engine is tuned , the peak torque rpm will almost always increase , the trick is 2 make most of it available at about 3000 rpm up , as u can c , the coza's don't .
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Some of those graphs provide a wonderful example of how truly crap and optimistic rolling roads are at measuring (sorry, badly guessing) the flywheel power.
Examples:

Evo 6 example ... 228bhp at the wheels and 85bhp transmission loss? 27% transmission loss from a stock Evo?

Escort Cosworth ... 318bhp at the wheels and 105bhp transmission loss!!!

2WD Sapphire ... 358bhp at the wheels and 108bhp transmission loss! (That's nearly 24% transmission loss from a RWD ... ermmm!?)

This is exactly why there are so many Cossie owners floating about that think their engine produces such massive power outputs ... because the rolling road (or the operator) comes up with ludicrous estimates for power losses. The ONLY way to measure flywheel power is to take the engine out and stick it on a pukka dynomometer.

Sorry for being so cynical all of a sudden ;)

Ian.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
evoboy,

I agree that as you tune the peak torque tends to shift higher up the revs. I'm just surprised that with the only mods being a freeflowing exhaust and filter the peak torque should shift by over 1000 rpm. Having printed out the graph (being a sad bstard) at 3000 he's making less than 200 ftlb. Thats a drop of 70 ftlb over standard or just over 25%.

If this is indeed the effect of fitting a free flowing filter and exhaust then i'll stick with the standard ones.

It's almost as though the boost is coming in later, coz if the mixture was far enough out to cause that sort of loss of torque then you'd be running dangerously lean.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
oli goon,

when I measured the power of my (previous) car (E6TME) a few months ago
I got very similar power/torque curves with -DjacK- (both power and torque
were a bit less though as it was a very hot day over 30C). Maximum torque on
my absolutely standard car was at just over 4K revs and not 3K revs as the
manufacturers suggest. Not only that but the torque curve from 3K to 4K was probably
steeper than -DjacK-'s car.

alex.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
When my car was idling on the rollers the revs where increasing then dropping, then increasing then dropping! When I took the car outside, off the rollers it was all fine again! I think this is running rich ?

Is my car under performing? As i aint no expert on all of this..
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Dj,
Don,t worry about that idle speed fluctuation , it was just the ECU getting conflicting info due 2 heat soak on the dyno.

As far as performance go's , how does feel by seat of the pant's ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Original Post:
Is my car under performing? As i aint no expert on all of this..
228bhp at the wheels sounds about right for a (nearly) stock Lancer. It probably equates to a flywheel power of anything between 280 and 295bhp (not the 313bhp predicted by the RR).

If you're ever doing any future mods and want to know what difference they've made, look again at the power at the wheels. DON'T trust the estimated flywheel power. Power at the wheels will vary a little between different rolling roads, power at the flywheel will vary a lot (because it's a guess and different RRs use different methods to guess ... usually wrongly).

At the end of the day, it's power and torque at the driven wheels that matters for performance, not power at the flywheel.

Ian.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Had a look at the printouts. Where are the figures for Dingy and Deadscoob's cars? Seems a shame not to see what they can do after all the hype.

Steve.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
oli goon, agree m8 - that's why I am tuning my car for good power band and spread, and not for peak power.

450 is likely to be my limit, though I will go 500 if it does not give on/off power. Definitely more than that is a no-no.

My power may not start till 3000 with the new turbo, but will still be going strong at 8500!
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Scarey!

I tell you what is scarey, the Reyland cossie with all his bhp on the rolling road went head to head with Dan at the pod 1/4 mile in July, Cossie 11.5 at 126 mph....... Dan in the GTIR 11.6 at 125 mph, not a lot in it eh!
Should be interesting next year as more work has been carried out on the GTIR over this winter ready for next year, hopefully giving the R33 a run for its money at the pod, only 11.3 to beat!!!!:)

Debs
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Debs, what do you reckon my car would pull? Have shorter 3rd/4th/5th now (same 1st/2nd and final drive), and 380|PLS|bhp.

Will have 450bhp soon - car weighs 1200kgs (maybe less).
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
isn't torque on the rolers really related to boost. so the maximum torque will come at the point you reach maximum boost. so a run was done in 4th gear and one in 3rd gear you will get completely different results. max torque will come in later in 3rd gear and so will the boost.

i had debat with the local 4wd RR up here in scotland as he was saying that you should get the same figures in any gear if the roller was set for that. right so we have done 3 runs after the roller was calibrated for each gear and we ended up getting the most power in 5th gear !!!! after that we did not really talk about it much :D

that is how i understand it but i stand corrected if i am talking crap.

sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sam, how is torque related to boost, what about none turbo charged cars.

To Be honest you just need to look at the wheels figures as its a little odd and always different how flywheel figures are calulated.

As for the torque question, always crosses at 5250 rpm, but the graph is using different scales for torque and bhp, so it screws some things up.

What is weird, is Bondy's saff, 330 bhp - i would put money on this car being faster that a 330 bhp EVO from say 30mph as its only 2wd as it fly's.

The reyland cossie has done 0-100 in 7.8 and 1/4 in 11.2 @ 138 mph FYI :D

Shame the GTiR didn't turn up, plus it may be as fast down the strip, but does it do 190 mph ;)

Anyway was an excellent day and thanks for the single EVO owner so come :D

I think he enjoyed his self :D

Awesome figures from a standard car.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Manuel Go's Evo (see member pages) recently pulled 10.97secs in the 1/4 mile here in the Philippines. That's with ambient temperatures likely higher than in Europe, as this is a tropical country!

See link here: http://drp3.4t.com/event_report_10272001.html
 
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