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Discussion Starter #1
I have just had a call from the police saying that a van we have on hire has been involved in a crime in Crawley. :eek: After ringing the lads involved who are travelling home they told me that they parked in a pub car park and were clamped, after going inside and were laughed at by the landlady they removed the wheel and put the spare on taking the undamaged clamp with them. How do we stand???
 

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They should of left the undamaged clamp there and then they would of done nothing wrong.
 

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daveR said:
They should of left the undamaged clamp there and then they would of done nothing wrong.
I'm assuming they had to take it as they couldn't detatch it from the wheel. If you deflate the tyre and can get the clamp off undamaged then return it.
 

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if you return the clamp undamaged it will be a civil dispute and not a criminal one.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
They have informed me that the clamp is not on the wheel as they deflated the tyre, it looks like they made one fatal error by keeping the clamp.... Bo11ocks :(
 

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Discussion Starter #7
gprim said:
if you return the clamp undamaged it will be a civil dispute and not a criminal one.
Is this definately correct before I ring the "dibble"
 

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JOHN'S RED VII said:
Is this definately correct before I ring the "dibble"
No. Please don't get legal advice from the MLR :) Theft is criminal. If the clamp is damaged that is also criminal. The only civil dispute would be over payment for removal. Take the clamp back, undamaged, and hope they are prepared to drop things. Also get a receipt for the clamp when you take it back, making sure it states that it is undamaged!
 

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Theft involves "the intention to permenantly deprive" so if you can convince that you always intended to give it back it isn't theft. This is why they came up with the crime of taking and driving away, if you nicked a car just to drive home in it wasn't theft cos you were only borrowing it! :D

So long as the cops don't know that the clamp was not still stuck to the wheel you might have a chance.
 

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Steve PH said:
Theft involves "the intention to permenantly deprive" so if you can convince that you always intended to give it back it isn't theft. This is why they came up with the crime of taking and driving away, if you nicked a car just to drive home in it wasn't theft cos you were only borrowing it! :D

So long as the cops don't know that the clamp was not still stuck to the wheel you might have a chance.
Correct in theory, but if the goods were only returned after the police got involved then no-one would be done for theft as everyone would say they intended to give the goods back. It isn't if you *did* permanently deprive the owner, it is if you *intended* to do it.
 

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Steve PH said:
Theft involves "the intention to permenantly deprive" so if you can convince that you always intended to give it back it isn't theft. This is why they came up with the crime of taking and driving away, if you nicked a car just to drive home in it wasn't theft cos you were only borrowing it! :D

So long as the cops don't know that the clamp was not still stuck to the wheel you might have a chance.
:crackup: :crackup:

Planet: Steve PH
Population: 1
 

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sims said:
:crackup: :crackup:

Planet: Steve PH
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What about this.....can you argue it was theft under duress as they had "attached" their property to yours?

You surely wouldn't have nicked the wheel clamp had it not been attached to your car.

I would also put in an immediate claim for damage to your car, it may scare them off.

Ben
 

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Originally posted by Ben_Scammell
> can you argue it was theft under duress as they had "attached" their
> property to yours?

WTF?

> I would also put in an immediate claim for damage to your car, it may
> scare them off.

WTF?

As I said earlier on to the OP, please don't ask for legal advice on the MLR :)
 

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Aidy said:
> can you argue it was theft under duress as they had "attached" their
> property to yours?

WTF?
Ther must be some milage in this, surely? Let's say I bolted something small to your towing eye while you were parked on my property. You drove off with it attached and I claimed you stole it. Where do we stand now?

Did you steal my property, even though I purposely affixed it to something of yours that could have been removed perfectly legitimately?

Or did I purposely do it in the knowledge that you would drive off with it, and that I could then make a claim of theft?
 

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chunky said:
Ther must be some milage in this, surely? Let's say I bolted something small to your towing eye while you were parked on my property. You drove off with it attached and I claimed you stole it. Where do we stand now?

Did you steal my property, even though I purposely affixed it to something of yours that could have been removed perfectly legitimately?

Or did I purposely do it in the knowledge that you would drive off with it, and that I could then make a claim of theft?
I wouldn't have thought there is any mileage in that arguement to be honest. Your example involves something being secreted on the car, whereas the wheelclamp by design does not allow the car to be moved. It would have been clear to the driver of said vehicle that they'd been clamped.

If they had managed to get the clamp off undamaged and left it there I doubt there would be a problem but at the end of the day the clamp has been nicked and will only now be returned after the involvement of the police.

I expect that if the clamp is undamaged and the release fee is paid then the clamp company ([email protected] though they certainly are) might let it go. Depends if the police decide to take action or decide to leave it up to the victim of the crime to press charges I suppose.
 

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chunky said:
Ther must be some milage in this, surely? Let's say I bolted something small to your towing eye while you were parked on my property. You drove off with it attached and I claimed you stole it. Where do we stand now?
Totally different situation. When you park in a clamping area (one where there are signs you will be clamped) you are giving permission to have a clamp attached to your car if you break the stated parking rules.
 

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Aidy said:
Totally different situation. When you park in a clamping area (one where there are signs you will be clamped) you are giving permission to have a clamp attached to your car if you break the stated parking rules.
So, could this legisaltion be logically extended to say, stickers?

When you park in a stickering area (one where there are signs you will be stickered) you are giving permission to have a sticker stuck to your car if you break the stated parking rules.
Save all these expensive clamps?
 

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chunky said:
So, could this legisaltion be logically extended to say, stickers?
As long as the sign is prominant, clear, and gives the cost of de-clamping then it doesn't matter if it is a sticker.
 

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So what if you put a sticker on the sticker claiming that you are bloody well not giving your permission by being clamped and you are parking there because you can, what then? ;)
 
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