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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I apologise that we have not responded earlier with some detailed information.

To answer a number of points in no particular order.

1/ When we modify the ECU, we do not add any additional piggy back board. The conversion is undetectable.

2/ We re-programme the central processor. This is not an EPROM and accessing the data and then altering it and replacing it, is extremely difficult due to software security written into the processor.

3/ We would urge owners not to find their fuel cut level because this is the easiest way to bend connecting rods

4/ The fuel cut is programmed into the ECU based on throttle angle and air flow meter output (slightly different levels depending on the vehicle and the software within the ECU). Fuel cut defencers limit the output of the air flow meter so the ECU thinks it is seeing 1bar boost but they allow the boost to be wound up to any level. You can imagine the effect of the ECU outputting fuel and ignition figures for 1 bar whilst the engine is seeing 1.2bar!

5/ The original map scaling of fuel and ignition parameters allows complete mapping up to 1.6 bar but of course the fuel cut stops this sort of boost being run. When we (Power Engineering) re-map the ECU we raise the fuel cut to whatever level is require for the conversion.

6/ With the fuel cut altered we can then re-map for many different parameters including 95 fuel or 1.6 bar depending on the level of other modifications carried out.

7/ It seems to be thought that we only recommend 95 Octane fuel with our re-mapped ECU. We offer different programmes which we can upload into the processor. We recommend 97 Octane fuel for any power above 300bhp. The 95 octane conversion is designed to improve safety and cost but it does also provide at least 15lbs/ft of torque as well as superior turbo spool up.

8/ We can offer programmes which will run the car up to 1.6 bar (subject to significant other modifications carried out to the engine). We would never just wind the boost up without recommending other mods to suit the mapping and power output required.

9/ Up to 1.3 bar the boost is completely close loop controlled within the ECU. No bleed valves, etc.

10/ There is a huge amount of fuel and ignition mapping carried out with our ECU and even as low as 2000 rpm we are seeing significant torque increases over the standard ECU.

11/ The re-programming is completely undetectable by dealers and the ECU retains full OBD II diagnostic functions and climate and AYC controls. The Mitsi MUT tester is fully functional when connected to a car with our ECU.

12/ After the conversion we can at any stage upload new maps if further tuning is required.

13/ The ECU has a huge amount of closed loop function and air flow meter bolt on electronics can have unexpected effects. This is not a criticism of other products but based on knowing how complex the ECU software is. We have not had first hand experience of air flow meter controllers but the main input to the ECU with regard to boost and engine load is from this sensor, so we would hesitate to use anything which altered the output from this.

14/ Our development car is run exclusively on 95 octane fuel. It runs 1.6 bar boost at all times, but we would not recommend this to any customer. We use this to assess the det point so we can build larger safety margins for our customers who run 97 fuel with anything over 300bhp.

15/ To date we have carried out 59 ECU conversions to various levels in the UK and 104 across the rest of the world. We only supply tuning companies around the rest of the world who have been able to give us complete accurate details of the level of modification carried out to their customers’ cars. We have not had a single ECU returned.

16/ We regularly supply 4 different country specific Ralliart operations outside of the UK. (Who shall remain nameless).

17/ We are happy to refund 100% of the ECU conversion cost if anyone is not happy with any aspect of the conversion.

18/ We always provide before and after power/torque graphs for all conversion work we carry out.

19/ We have complete control and understanding of the ECU software, for example, if required we can alter the ignition immobiliser, map scaling, rev limit, fuel cut limit, fuel injector flow calibration, boost control, fuel and ignition mapping.

I hope this helps shed some light on the work we carry out on the ECU.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Forgot to mention the re-programming also removes the speed limiter which is an ECU controlled function.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi!

I would like to have some details about your ecu remapping.

In your web site you say that you have a 25bhp improvement with your ecu with no other modifications and 95ron fuel.

But in the tuning board the stage one conversion,ecu remapping alone,gives a result of 280bhp,and the stage 2,high power program gives 290 bhp.

Also I would like to know at what turbo pressure you have these figures.

Would the power improvement be really different if you set the ecu for only 98ron fuel?

Is it possible to have an anti lag system switch?

Thank you for the informations
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Point 7 from DP, use 97 ron over 300bhp so Evoboy did you request 330bhp on 95 ron against DP's advice. All seems as clear as mud. http://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/biggrin1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >

Rgds Kevin
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
David......very informative. Thank you.

Just one point I am not quite clear on is whether your ECU upgrade is effectively an off the shelf type product like the Ralliart Sports ECU then, or is it a programmable ECU mapped specifically to the vehicle like the Motec, Gems, Link etc?

It sounds like you've developed the perfect upgrade if it is undetectable i.e perfect for foiling the Insurance Company, and potentially the Warranty one also. Excellent! Not to mention the convienience(not having to swap ECUs etc).

Assumingly you can download the factory map . Any chance of a copy?

Evo Mag runs an EVO VI RS with one of your ECUs which had an engine failure. I am sorry to ask this question but it is only a natural thought process to associate the failure with performance upgrades. I just wondered whether you knew what the cause of the engine failure was.

Steve
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Steve

I am afraid that reports of the EVO engine failure are not true.

Tim brought the car to us with severe top end noise (which he had been complaining about for months, to a greater or lesser extent).

We had told him the tappets needed replacing, (we are convinced it was partly due to his constantly running the car on the rev limit because it is the short geared RS and he admits to driving it for minutes on the rev limiter). However there was evidence of valve bounce and the tappets were worn badly. (Remember this car had a very very uncertain history in Japan before being shipped here).

We advised that we could offer a gas flowed cylinder head and he wanted to use this as an excuse to strengthen the engine further.

The reason we have taken so long over this job is because Tim has been deciding on specs and budgets and until his Skyline was stolen there was no great urgency.

Our ECU can be programmed on an exchange basis and fitted into the car if the car has a known specification. This we do all over the world. However we much prefer to fit the ECU and carry out the testing here. There is also a temptation for the owner to increase boost over what is safe given the other engineering mods carried out to the car.

You can see from our site that for every item we offer to increase power there are more to increase safety: Big end bolts, water injection, breather system, fuel pump etc.

You cannot just bolt the ECU on and wind the boost up.


I think Mervyn (who does all the rolling road work and mapping with me will be answering some other tech questions on here later)
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
David,

I think the impression that you only do conversions for 95 RON comes from your (very impressive) website which certainly seems to read that way. However from what you say above, you are able to do remaps for 97 RON if I understand right - can you confirm? If thats the case then a bit of rewording on the website should do the trick.

Regards
Steve.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I agree to the above thread, I assumed all remapps were for 95 RON and am a little confused now.

I am looking for 300|PLS| BHP, does this means I have to stick to SUL?
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
David,
Thanks for all your replies on the various threads through out this forum. I do agree with SteveC's comments above as it did seem unbeliveable and a bit dangerous that you remap for 95RON and also improve the power output to a great extent! Your recommendation of 97RON for over 300bhp seems entirely reasonable to me.
How many miles has your test car run on the remap?
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I agree with the 95 ron ,I assumed that could get 340 bhp with 95 fuel.
How ever I am very glad that David power has attended this bill board and put a few thing s right,after reading previous threds on the PE remaps,some I thought were harsh,but to the point,all the better to vent feelings,as this is a BBS.
With out starting arguement ,and advertising .I feel more input from tuners would be appreciated.Especially to defend themselves in the event of a slagging off.
At the end of the day all of us tend when having bought an EVO car for the first time ,ask around for servicing parts etc.
cheers

Paul s
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
T27,
Thought u had me there did u not http://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/tongue1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >

As I originally advised my car was mapped on 95 UL and is within a safe margin producing 330 BHP , don't forget that I have the PE/Blitz hybrid exhaust system which helps.
As David has mentioned the ECU can be mapped on the fuel of a customers choice , but I can't see the point of mapping on SUL when I have the result above on 95 , remember , the ECU has a knock sensor and the EVO motor is not prone to det.
The PE development car has all it's mapping done on 95 , again no problems.
Off the record Ralliart also will tell u that their cars run on 95 UL.
So as soon as the roads are salt free u can all witness for yourselves at a rolling road day.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I look forward to seeing it, as to be quite frank I don't believe the figures. I fail to see how on 95 ron fuel you can get 330bhp with no det anywhere in the rev range and to boot keep an acceptable EGT.

waiting with eagle eyes !

Kevin
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
We monitor EGT all the time on our car during mapping and road running.

I would hope that the number of cars we have carried out this work on would be an indication o the success we have had with it.

However if there is space then I would be happy to bring our car to the rolling road day at Tuning Japanese with an empty tank and have it filled with 95 fuel before running. It is running 1.5bar on 95 (although of course we would not recommend this but we always use 95. I do not want to intrude on your day and will only come if people think it is a good idea and I can make it away from here.

Mervyn is away that weekend and we will be very busy at work but if I can I will do this, if it helps to allay any fears about the work we carry out.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
David

Thanks for your input, it was very thorough and informative.

I wasn't sure about what you said about FCD's and as I'm fitting one this weekend I did a bit of further investigation. Using the wiring diagram from APEX (S-AFC fitted already) I have compared where the FCD is wired in. And guess what, it is indeed wired into the airflow signal wire (3rd pin in from bottom right).

Although I do not have a degree in signal processing, I am a qualified radio engineer and know a bit about electronics. As the FCD is only wired into the airflow signal wire there is no way in my opinion that it can stop fuel cut without altering the amount of airflow seen by the ECU and therefore the fuel mixture. It would appear to me that the FCD uses some form of clipping circuit to limit the signal level from the airflow meter. This means that instead of fuel cut occuring there may be a moment when the mixture is slightly weak.

I am convinced anyway and don't intend to fit the FCD now. I'll just have to find a new gromet! or save up for a MOTEC ECU http://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/happy1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle > .

I know that EVOs run inherently rich ( drive behind one and watch all the black smoke/unburnt fuel come out of the exhaust when floored), but does anyone know by how much when they are full throttle? If I found out I could use the S-AFC to weaken the mixture by a few percent at between 3k and 4k RPM and thus stop the fuel cuts occuring anyway. I think its time for a rolling road set up.

Adrian
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Adrian, I went down the FCD route initially with horrible bleed valve device, trying to do things cheaply, the car seemed ok at first but when driving hard at high rpm it felt like it was holding back, this is what first took me down to PE, when the car went on the rolling road all was revealed, mervyn reported that the car was running lean above 5000 rpm ish, hence the holding back buisiness, apparently the full load fuelling was 4%, mervyn said a minimum of 6% was reqd for engine survival, so that lot came off and I have never looked back, do it right! you know it makes sense - jeff
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Adrian
They do run quite rich from std, although with a free flowing exhaust and induction mods things do become somewhat less rich. I have observed from 0-7700rpm with full data logging,wide band Lambda meter, detonation headset and ETG guage. It was at this point that I became unhappy with using lower ron fuels.
D.P.
I respect your offer to attend the R/R day and am sure other members will give there own views. It is important that you are able to express the opinions from your company as much as anybody else from this club/BBS.


Rgds Kevin A
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'm all in favour of Power Engineering bringing their car along and any other tuners (if they think they're hard enough!).

Even if everybody does not go along with the PE way, at least they will have a first hand opportunity to see the car, the mods and be able to express their opinions to Dave Power.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
David,

I would be very interested to see the PE test car there, both to see the output and have a look at some of the goodies on it. You can book with Darin ([email protected]). Think there are still places left.

Steve.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Michelle,

What ? http://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/tongue1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >

Have u read all this thread or just what u wanted to hear.

My views are clear I think , my car can speak for it's self.
U can see for yourself at a rolling road day coming to a venue near u soon.
 
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