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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I’ve had PF pads on my car now for about a month. They are great pads, best I’ve tried, but if that dust gets wet, it sticks, and sticks fast and goes orange.

My two front Enkei wheels, only two months old are now sh4gged.

The first time I tried to remove the dust, or should I say rust, :eek: I had to remove the wheels and bend over and take it to them hard for over two hours of scrubbing, clay bar and finger nails scraping.

This time, just now in fact it stuck harder this time, and only one of those metal stringy dish clothes is working, but of course it taking paint too :goingmad:


Anyone else with these problems??
Performance Friction Brakes – Anyone else having problems with the Dust sticking?


I’ve had PF pads on my car now for about a month. They are great pads, best I’ve tried, but if that dust gets wet, it sticks, and sticks fast and goes orange.

My two front Enkei wheels are now sh4gged.

The first time I tried to remove the dust, or should I say rust, :eek: I had to remove the wheels and bend over and take it to them hard for over two hours of scrubbing, clay bar and finger nails scraping.

This time, just now in fact it stuck harder this time, and only one of those metal stringy dish clothes is working, but of course it taking paint too :goingmad:

May other worry is that this nasty dust will be sticking to the sides of the car two??

Anyone else with these problems??
 

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if the brake dust is going orange, it is more likely to be cast iron dust from the discs being worn away ! Realy hard pad material is great for performance but hard on discs.

I had DS3000 pads for a while it wrecked my oz wheels and turned my white car orange :blah: it took months to polish off.

Great way to keep the discs from warping, hard pads tend to machine the high spots off !!! :D
 

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Hi Mate,

I too had pf front pads and found the same, whilst they were undoubtably the best pads i've had, they left solid deposits of dust on my wheels. As you said this stuff was frankly impossible to shift :mad: i tried most things but to no avail!

I have now changed pads ot ferodo ds2500 whilst not quite as good they do the job (apart from squeeling unbelievably loudly all the time :eek: ).

The result of all this is i had to have all my wheels refubished at a cost of 250 quid, thought about contacting pf but thought it would fall on deaf ears :blah:
 

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"I had DS3000 pads for a while it wrecked my oz wheels and turned my white car orange it took months to polish off."

Now thats very interesting as the lower half of my car from front wings all the way to the boot and back bumper turned yellowy orange i remember t-cutting it twice whilst having the pf pads in and again just after i took them off, so far this problem has stopped :) Never considered that as a cause? Ihad orange and black deposits in my wheels too, also the pad ate my taxox disc too :eek: It left a lip all the way round the edge leaving it looking like the top of a tin of beans :confused: Also whilst these pads were in my caliper dust seals melted :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yep DS3000 did the same to mine aswell. So I agree with what your saying, BUT DS3000 weren't as bad as this.

It just means that i have wrecked a front set of wheels, and I hope by writing this that everyone else with these very good brakes wipes there wheels down very regularly. A real pain, personally.


This is what PF have said about the problem:

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your letter of concern regarding the dusting from our brake pads. I’m encouraged to hear that you are pleased with the level of performance of our product, but at the same time anxious that you are not completely satisfied.

Being a user of PFC pads in my own road car I have also experienced the dusting you refer to. Unfortunately, this is a consequence of the improved performance resulting from the composition of the pad. If I may explain: an increase in friction level usually results in an increase in dusting due to the amount of energy being dissipated by the brake system. One of the reasons why our pads are so successful is because of the Carbon Metallic® composition. The carbon, which is the matrix of the pad, provides excellent stability at high temperatures. This stability results in the excellent feel and consistency our pads provide. However, carbon being an organic substance will degrade, i.e. dust. The metallic elements used within the pads provide not only a form of reinforcement but also aid the increased stopping ability of the pads. However, as the carbon dust is emitted as a result of the kinetic energy being dissipated as heat, the dust will also contain traces of these metallic elements. Therefore, when the dust lands on the wheel, it will congeal due to the carbon matrix but also start to rust due to the metallic elements.

Hopefully this explanation gives a better understanding of why you are experiencing the problems of dusting and with this type of dust in particular. Unfortunately there is always a trade off with brakes, and dusting from high performance pads is an inevitable outcome. This trade off means that if PFC were to reduce the level of dusting, the high energy being dissipated is likely to manifest itself as increased disc wear.

The perfect brake is yet to be invented, which in my view will probably include magnetic fields rather than a process of friction. However, it is my view that if performance is your preferred criteria then there is no better brake available than the latest PFC package.

The package for the Mitsubishi Evo has been designed to satisfy two requirements: 1) improved stopping ability, 2) improved refinement (ie. eliminate disc judder, reduce noise). I believe PFC has succeeded in offering Mitsubishi Evo owners a long awaited cure for these areas. In all instances to date I’ve received only praise for the package and no complaints of excessive dusting. PFC pads are low dusting unless they are operating within their upper limits. However, rather than denying you have a problem or asking you to slow down, I would rather present you with the facts and leave you to make an informed choice of what pads you prefer to use.

If I can assist you with any other questions or concerns you might have regarding our product, please do not hesitate to contact me.

In the mean time I hope you continue to enjoy the benefits our package has to offer and don’t find the level of dusting too much of an inconvenience. My only recommendations would be to look for a product that provides a protective barrier for wheels and keep high decel stops for the dry only, where the dust should not congeal on the wheels.
 

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“The metallic elements used within the pads provide not only a form of reinforcement but also aid the increased stopping ability of the pads.”
True but the volume of the metallic elements in the pad is very small and is unlikely to be ferrous so should not rust ! Carbon is virtually inert and will not cause a problem even when wet.

“This trade off means that if PFC were to reduce the level of dusting, the high energy being dissipated is likely to manifest itself as increased disc wear.”
True but if the dust is cast iron ( it is rusting ?) then we are there already ? See my above comment on avoiding disc warping.

“PFC pads are low dusting unless they are operating within their upper limits.”
So only drive slowly then and all will be fine. You should always be within the upper limits otherwise you have brake fade ? and weres the fun in that :D

“The perfect brake is yet to be invented”
Very true ! ;)

“My only recommendations would be to look for a product that provides a protective barrier for wheels and keep high decel stops for the dry only”
No wet weather driving for your car then ? Its is possible for the dust or other particles to be very hot this can pit the wheel lacquer on contact, no polish will withstand this !

I may be completely wrong on this but I will bet this package will not warp (or go thick thin the most common cause of judder in the EVO) but Weeble will be doing another group buy by Christmas on these disc as they will all be worn out.

If I were you I would go and buy an alternative pads as soon as to possible, trashing wheels is not fun (I’ve done it hence the TME’s :cry: ) Returning an orange car back to white is hard work with the Tcut. :mad:

Just my opinion on the subject ;)
 

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I had the same pads and the same problem! :(
I expected the dust levels to be high but did no expect the dust the be so hard to remove from the paint!
My wife followed my car and remarked every time I braked hard black dust and sparks came from the front wheels! :blush:
I also found the gave a very soft pedal feel in comparison to the other pads I have used.
3600 miles and they chewed through a set of Bradi group N discs and I'd managed to get 20,000 out of the standard Brembo pads and Discs and only changed them because they were S#it. ;)

The best thing to do is change your pads before they do any damage to the calipers. I had to remove my calipers and literally chip the carbon dust off them. I used a comercial acid cleaner for use on heavily soiled alloy and cleaning motar from bricks amongst other things.:eek: Polishing the dust off your paintwork may have a slightly abrasive effect so you may be better using cheap(weak) alloy wheel cleaner applied to a wet car to remove most of the dust and finnish with a good few coats of polish.

Hope this helps.

Mac. :)
 

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funny this shud come up...........

I've been involved in the initiation of this PF disc product and had previously used PF pads together with one of my customers. I had made PF aware of the dust and disc wear rate problem but they seemed satisfied that the new pad formula and disc would not suffer from those issue's.

I also offered to trial the new products with a hard driving customer in order to prevent just this sort of situation occuring , but they indicated it wasn't necessary !!

I think the disc is superb , but the pad is not really suitable for road use , I would suggest that a different pad should be used on the road because from my experience when the PF pads are used in the wet the dust issue becomes a serious problem. The PF pad would be great for track days but should only be installed for the trackday and removed and exchanged for a road pad when returning to public road use. This would minimise the consequences of the high dusting and disc wear problem.

Might be worth checking with the Scoobie lads on this issue because PF introduced a disc for Scoobs at the same time as Evo's.
 

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evoboy,

greetings - good to see you are still about.

have to agree - from reading the above the pf pads are not suitable for road use (unless you live in very low humidity zone).

btw metaliic oxides are pretty corrosive - hence why they are so difficult to remove. i hate to think what they have done to the car bodywork.

pf have obviously used a heavily metal impregnated material on their pad that has a high coefficient of friction but scrapes the **** out of the disk.

i've used ds2500 since getting rid of the OE bimbo's and the've been ok. now got 6 pot ap's which are the dogs. so far the've been on 6 months with little wear.
 

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Guys.

Trying to clear up a few questions about PF here.

Does anybody, using PF pads AND PF Discs have this problem?

I certaily don't, I have dust yes, but not this corrosive oxide people are talking about. Can we write this problem off to good pads on indifferent discs?

Ta much :)
 

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123456...I thought I was one of the lucky few customers to purchase the first set of discs back in March...how did you get yours as early as January (5 months ago) when at the Autosport show I was informed they were still being produced???

No problems with PFC discs and pads :confused:
 

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please keep the topic rolling. i have the same pf brake pads for my E8 MR RS and will mount them as soon as the car is registered.

I used to drive with DS3000 and wanted a better product, hopefully pf brake pads will achieve in this.
I didn't care to much the brake dust of the DS3000 on my E6 as my OZ wheels where secondhand. May be different on my brand new MR RS..
think I will use a very sticky polish the protect both calippers and wheels.
I also will apply a self adhesive transparent tape on both sides of the car to protect the doors from stonechips and the carbon metallique pieces which come from the brakes.

I will keep all in current when I start to use the new pads.
 

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Mitsie said:
123456...I thought I was one of the lucky few customers to purchase the first set of discs back in March...how did you get yours as early as January (5 months ago) when at the Autosport show I was informed they were still being produced???

No problems with PFC discs and pads :confused:
Sorry to confuse I was making the point about hard pad material and wear on the cast iron etc etc. I have never had the PFC discs, only APR ones ;)
 

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...I bet you had some of the old PFC 93's as well! ;)

I tried some of the older PFC pads and they did suffer from wearing out the disc as you suggested. However, they seem to have fixed that with their new pad and disc combination...in fact the discs still look like new after 4000 miles road use.

What's interesting is that no one commenting about the problem of dusting from the pads appears to be using the PFC disc. This suggests that the corrosive nature of the dust particles are actually pieces of the disc melting away due to the increased friction of the pad, which let's be honest would be yet further proof that the original discs are sh!te! :blah:

My discs/pads seem to be giving no problems. I guess it's testiment to the fact that the brakes are a complete system...one component alone cannot cure a problem and there's obviously nothing wrong with the original calipers! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks Mitsi.

So anyone else with the PF discs and pads that have no dust sticking problems??

I got this back from PF yesterday:

Hi Mark,

I hope your weekend was successful in cleaning the wheels and the brake dust has been removed without damaging your wheels.

It might be that you've provided the answer; I had assumed you were already running our discs. Although I cannot guarantee that this problem will disappear when using our discs, I can guarantee that the disc material is completely unique to Performance Friction and does differ considerably to 'others' discs. To date, I have received no complaints of dusting from the customers who have currently received our complete package.

Before reaching for the Ferodo's I would ask that you give our disc/pad combination a try first, hopefully this will provide an answer.

Please let me know if the problem persists with our discs.

Kind regards,


I do have to say that PF are at least being helpful and not dismissing my problem. And that says alot.

I guess I will just have to try the combo, when it arrives.
 

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Hi Mate

I too have the disks and pads and do not have this problem, 700 miles now.

With a lot of town driving you can get a little judder when you then stand on them as I went into panic mode the first time this happened but its just the disk cleaning off the pad material.

They can be stamped on all day and do not seem to fade. I’ve not had any issues with excessive wear or dust. They are dusty but IMO not as bad as DS2500's


:(
 
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