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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On business yesterday going down the A303 I noticed the steering wheel wobbling on moderate braking. Don't tell me this is the infamous brake warping?

I had read all the threads on brake warping with a pretty much academic interest as I'd thought that as I don't race or use the brakes that hard it won't happen to me.

To date I have never really used the brakes hard as having 'spent' the petrol to get me going fast I prefer to use gears/windage to slow the car. On the particular day in question I had to slow from 85 to 65 a couple of times but never that hard, certainly no more than I had done in other cars. Could this really have warped the brakes? If so i'll certainly go back to Mitsi asking them to replace under warranty. The difficulty will be proving that I haven't been braking hard.

This rounds off a top week for me as it's looking likely that I'm gonna get made redundant due to the firm relocating (and me not wanting to, although offering to be in office 2 days per week and work from home the rest of the time) and Tommi has just crashed out of Network Q.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Sounds like they've warped - it's certainly the sort of speeds I've repeatedly managed to warp mine at on the road before now, unfortunately :(

Have you got a VI? Based on my experiences (OEM disks warped, skimmed, warped again, PBD discs warped, Group N disks warped, Dragon disks warped, now on the Group Ns after a skim) if you're getting warp problems I'd bite the bullet and go for the AP or Mov'It set-up and junk those ####ing useless Brembos as you'll just spend loads of cash and not solve it otherwise - after changing pads and amp; discs the only remaining bit is the callipers.

I got notice of redundancy but the new company has offered me a job - in San Diego :) means selling the Evo though :( Good luck with the job thing.

Chris
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oli,
It might be worth holding onto the original discs and pads for a few more miles.
My E6 got the same symptoms as yours after I'd done 18,000 miles and the runout on the discs was measured and found to be out (indicating warped discs). At the time, I didn't want to replace the discs and so left them in until the next service (22,500). By that time, the wobble had disappeared and the discs were back to normal. I've now completed 31,000 miles and am still on the original discs with a new set of OEM pads and have still not had any problems.

Just my $2 worth before you go and spend £1600 on a set of AP 6 pots if you don't really need them.....

Andy
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
AndyF_RSX,

My original disks were skimmed twice, and are still wapred.
I find my usage of the brakes significantly less than 50% of the
brakes capability and the disks still warp (after performing several skimms
and run in procedures).

I am very close to getting a decision to hire an indepedent assesor and produce
a report on the brake - disk system if Mitsubishi deny to solve my problem once
and for good this time.

The way I see it there are two scenarios:

1) Return the car possibly with the help of my solicitor
2) Get the report of the indepedent assesor and sent it to the motoring press plus
consumer protection programs.

I am not determined to skimm or change my disks every 1-2 Kmiles of conservative use,
especially in a car like this.

Mitsubishi has no excuse whatsoever.

Regards,


Alex.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My disks needed replacing after 24500 miles all round. New discs and pads which was nice. I had the original Brembo's on again.

I've read a lot about warping on this forum and it is obviously a problem but for some of the stupid intervals between replacing disks I believe (pulling flamesuit on! :)) its down to the way you drive. My disks wouldn't have lasted as long as nearly 25000 miles if the car was driven badly (I'm not saying you're bad drivers before you start shouting at me!! :)).

With the disks you need to ensure you don't warm them up quickly, ie heavy braking from cold, they need to be warmed a little first I believe. At traffic lights and junctions etc don't sit with your foot on the brake, especially if your disks have been warmed up considerably or got quite hot, you're applying pressure which will aid the warping. Also, let them cool down if they've been hammered hard before stopping the car at the end of a run, I find a sedate drive getting some air around them with only light braking should do the trick.

I'm surprised the discs warp as often as they do, another quirk I guess we have to live with to have such an awesome motor, but we, as drivers, can drive in such a way to reduce the warping. I hope this helps anyone out there, if I am wrong on any point then I'd appreciate being put right, I'm no expert as I'm happy to admit! :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Davy

Before you get totally flamed, which you probably deserve to ;) lets look at the evidence. The fact that many people suffer from this problem sugests a design fault. One or two only would sugest driving style. I do believe that a few do happen because of driving style, but I believe that ther is a fundemental flaw. I find it interesting that Brembo gets the blame. Do they make the disks? Or is it that the calipers prevent proper cooling?

I suspect that there are a number of problems. Firstly, I have heard stories that the disk material is crap. This stacks up a little, but the fact that Chris has gone through PBD, Grp N and Dragon disks makes this an unlikely cause. However, Godspeed disks are said to survive. Next, I hyave heard it said that the wheel bearings are not really up to the job, generate heat and that the total package causes warping. Finally, the design of the underbody does nnot allow for sufficient cooling. I don't know if any of these really make sense. All I know is that it is totally inexcusable of Mitsubishi not to do something about it.

Davy, you seem to think that disks lasting 25000 miles is acceptable. Well, I don't. You state that if you adopt a certain driving style the disks will last longer. Other cars doen't need that. Give the guys who are having these problems a break. They have enough to be p****d about.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
DavyT,

I appreciate your comments. However when travelling at 80 - 90 mph down a dual carriageway I don't expect to have to warm the brakes before I stop at the next roundabout. For example on the A303 there are a couple of roundabouts a few miles apart. The brakes will have cooled between each application. Indeed should you always keep the brakes warm incase you need to do an emergency stop?

Nor do I have expect to have to keep my brakes warm in case when coming up behind someone to overtake i see an obstacle and have to slow down to slot in behind.

If the brakes warp with this type of usage then it is poor design. None of my previous cars have had any problems with this. The calipers are still the original bright red. The disks look slightly worn but nothing exceptional.

Andy RSX
Thanx for the advice. I will leave it for a while as its not a major problem at the moment.

Chris
It is an E6 TME.

Alex
I have to say that given the above situation i agree with you.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Alex - I'm with you on this, there are a couple of reasons I decided not to return the car under the sales of goods act, one is my household insurance wouldn't cover the cost and I'd have to self-fund, the other is I'd tried to resolve it myself, rather than chucking it back at Ralliart/Mistubishi to fix, which is what I should have done. I suspect, given the prevalance of the problem and the cost to fix all the Evo's that Mitsu will fight you all the way to the courts on this, and I didn't have the patience to put up with 12-18 months of legal ########. The best of luck to you mate - how about a class action ;)

Oli, I agree 100% with your comment on roundabouts etc - are we supposed to left foot brake all the time to make sure the brakes don't go cold? FFS, I can see driving styles making a difference (I'm not that hard on the brakes) but making sure you get them pre-heated before every corner is an imbecilic statement - it's not possible to drive sensibly on the road like that. And the TME bit at in your sig is a sort of give-away as to which one you've got http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/embarassed1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >

Davy, getting warm yet mate :)

We could just tell the Yanks that Bin Laden works in the CCC warranty department...

Chris
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
DavyT,

I have to disagree with your comment that it's down to driving style, and especially that we should 'warm up' brakes before use - this is supposed to be a performance car, you should be able to start it from cold and go wherever you want and know that the brakes are going to stop you without warping.

There's another post about Evo 7 brakes, which I've replied to, and I know my car ( Evo 7 ) is being driven 'normally' at the moment, 'cos I ain't driving it. And the brakes still vibrate !

But there is definately an improvement once the brakes have been warmed up, I just don't think that as a driver you should have to be concious of your brake temperature.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
DavyT,

Believe me, in my case it has nothing to do with my driving style. I am driving the car like
an Austin Moris nowadays and I've been driving the car very conservative (as far as braking
is concerned from day one, since I bought the car @9500 miles with warped disks from my
Mitsubishi dealers).

The reason why I will go all the way with Mitsubishi is that I am not prepared to have to drive
the car so conservatively and still having warped disks. I am not an 18 year old boy who just
got his 1st sports car and is going to brake it to pieces. I used to be an owner of several cars
(Peugeot 205 GTI, Peugeot 205 Rallye, Lancia integralle, Subaru iMpreza STi) and never had
this problem before. Bear in mind that with all these cars I had great confidence in their standard
braking system and I could use them as hard as I liked, any time that I liked.

I am in a situation right now that I use the hand brake on the traffic lights as a precaution not to
warp the brakes. Are the Mitsubishi/ralliart people serious ? When did you last see (and from which
company) people handing leaflets about brake disk run-in procedures.

Finally I wouldn't complaign to Mitsubishi (it takes more time/effort and money to me) so many times
if I felt that I was abusing (or even close to abusing) the brakes. There is a genuine problem and they
have to acknowledge it and do whatever they can to fix it.

I spoke with other people in this forum who had similar problems and had never raced or abused the brakes
like me.

I know that your post did not meant any harm to the people who have suffered the unpreoffesionalism of
Mitsubishi regarding the brake system problem but I am very ####ed of since I just came back from my local
Mitsubishi dealer who said that the brake judder was under accepted levels. Funny to mention that they performed
the run in procedure (16.5 miles) before making their minds that significantly improved the problem but there was
still brake judder.

At the end it is as simple as that. I am not prepared to live with this problem and I feel far from guilty for
its reoccurence after 1-2 Kmiles (after the disk skim). If they can not solve the problem the car is going back
to them even if I have to get a solicitor.


Regards,


Alex.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Chris S,

I have already looked at it. If the court claim has to do with a value over ~5k pounds the case
does not go to a small claim court. That means that you are entitled to all the expenses you
need to make for your case (solicitor, indepedent assesor etc). I have already contacted a
fully qualified indepedent assesor, explaining my problem. He said that he would gladly take the
case and produce a report on the brakes of the car.

I am now waiting for the official answer from Mitsubishi (for my particular case).

Any negative news will receive my promptly action.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It is a combination which causes the discs to warp.

Surf through the archives and you'll find out. I recommend to read my movit topic as there's loads of info about brakes on the EVO.

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Alex,

Good luck with it all - be interesting to see what Mistubishi say, and what the independent expert says. If he needs some more OEM disks to look at, I've got my warped set kicking around. I suspect they'll ask you to sign a non-disclosure clause if they pay you off or upgrade the disks though.

I'd very much like to see Mitsubishi get thoroughly stuffed on this - someone said the true measure of an organisation is how they deal with customer complaints, and in my opinion Mistubishi are terrible on the brake situation.

At least Audi had the decency to admit it when they got caught out on the RS4 wheels, but I don't think Mitsubishi will, as there will be too much loss of face after they've spent 18 months saying its the way you drive it .

Chris
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Chris S,

Thanks for your help. If mitsubishi refuse to change the disks (hubs, bearings whatever is necessary) at their
own cost I will ask my dealers to take the car back and I will expect a full refund.

In case that they refuse to do that I will have the indepedent assessor to perform a long test drive (in my presense)
when the brakes will be in the condition that my Dealers characterise to be within acceptable limits. He will drive the car
from my mitsubishi dealers after they have verified the right condition of the brakes. After that I expect various brake tests
within the day.

I know for a fact that with very conservative braking my disks can last between 1-2 KMiles. On the other hand I don't expect
that it will take more than a few hours of road testing to warp the brakes, if one includes one or two emergency braking situations.
In any case and in contrast to what my dealers are (currently) saying (to cover their backs) the brakes are already warped after
the last road test they did (which lasted 7 miles after my last oil service ?????).

To be honest, if I knew this beforehand, I wouldn't buy the car. After all I bought an official Ralliart car not for the privilege of getting
it from Ralliart but mainly because of the warranty.


I'll keep you posted,



Regards,


Alex.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks for all your replies to this.

My problem seems to be getting worse (and so does the wheel shake on braking:)). To start with it was barely noticeable. Now it starting to become annoying.

Alex, please keep us informed as to how your legal action goes.

scoobymike, I would seriously consider either the AP setup or Movit if I was going racing, but never having braked hard enough to test either the ABS or tyre adhesion in the dry I don't consider myself a hard barke user and so would go for the cheaper disk replacement option of godspeed or whatever. I personally like the sound of the Movit kit. The fact that they are a Monobloc and are presumably lighter than the AP's has got to be worthwhile. However its along way to go to Germany if you need support whereas the AP setup will be well supported in the UK.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Oli

you'll have decent support also with the Movit brakes as JAZ Traction is the official importer. I'm from Switzerland and had direct support from Movit in Germany which was brilliant. This restored some of my faith in motor trade after having made many bad and costly experiences. This is also a reason why I praise them so much.

I can understand your decision as we're talking about a certain amount of money spent on brakes. Just one fact I want to mention. With the Movit kit in combination with your driving style the discs will last literally forever. Also pad life will be prolonged. Depending on how many miles you do this will safe you money in the long run.

Cheers

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Oli,

Mine does that too - once the discs start to go they seem to degrade quite rapidly until it gets on your tits.

I'd seriously consider going for an upgraded set rather than just changing the discs - if the problem recurs you'll be down the cost of the discs and back in the same position - I wish I'd have gone for the AP set up this time last year :(

Although I appear to have unwarped brakes at the moment - the skimmed group N set are holding up, but they are wearing really quickly with the Mintex F4R pads in it - never mind, I'll have sold it in two months so it won't be my problem :)

Good luck,

Chris
 
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