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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so far things are looking interesting. The new turbo and exhaust is on. Mapping is underway, but is looking like the most I can get out will be around 410bhp. EGT is high, so is probably running very lean - will know later. Guess that the injectors are running wide open, and need to be made bigger to get the required power out.

Lightspeed, the turbo is the Trust/Greddy TD06SL2-20G kit. I believe this is rated at 425bhp at 1.4 bar, and was hoping that I would get 450bhp out of it, and maybe 475bhp. Have also heard from PE (who heard from someone else) that one of these went bang at 1.9 bar, so 1.6-1.7 is probably the sensible maximum for it.

Do you have any info on it to substantiate my beliefs? What sized injectors should I go for? I am guessing at 750...

Interesting points though:-

1) Lag has not increased at all
2) The external wastegate makes some silly noises - very loud!
3) The power band has now extended - max power is up at 6695rpm at the moment, as opposed to 6100rpm - and hasn't been tested higher yet due to the EGT.

If the turbo can't go to 450/475 - I understand it can be easily modified for more power. I am sure US guys get 500 hp out of the 20g.

Cheers,
Tony
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Pisces - the peak figure is low because of the standard turbo, which suffocates the power. There is still alot of power around 7000rpm - it is an artificial peak. I have HKS 272 i and 264 e cams. RS450's suffer from the same problem.

Road runner. I am keeping the bumper, but the lower front splitter (and side skirts for that matter) are available.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Blade

The Yanks do some serious meddling with the turbos and they call them Frankistein turbos or something like that.
Basically they take a stock 20g port the housing and then start messing with the angle of the impellor blades and change the outlet housing to a bigger one. and such like, totally mad. you need to get a turbo expert to look at it. Its good taht lag is no different looks good for me :)

Thorak
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Blade,

If you haven't been in touch with him yet, try sending TurboAWD an e-mail. As you probably know from the Members Cars section and other posts on here, he's getting over 460HP at the wheels from his Evo. I believe he's gone to some interesting lengths to achieve this, such as upgrading his throttle body to that from a 4.5 liter Infinity Q45.

Also, the Americans do seem to get silly figures from their 4G63 engines. I found this page recently that outlines more or less one modification path a Yank tuner suggests. Not exactly the same as what's needed to be done for an Evo, but it makes for interesting reading (at worst,) or may help you out (at best).

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/gvr4upgradepath.htm

As everyone else, we're looking forward to seeing the continued evolution (pun not intended) of your car!

Cheers!

P.S. Glad to have you back!
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
its still low,even with std turbo.....cams should take it to 7000 to 7300
they did on mine,which has mak gsr turbo

and as for injectors,mapping for these is not easy it seems...and i would guess the 680,s would be enough of a jump.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I can confirm you will get flashes of flames from underneath the car, just like the Group B Audi Quattro Short Wheelbase !! not all the time though, just on a full bore gearchange.

You should be able to run up to 1.6 - 1.8 bar quite easily with this turbo.

Wierdly enough, my peak power is at 5800rpm, and the EGT's never go above 700 degrees C, even when giving it a good motorway thrashing for a long time. However, my fuelling gets very rich at the top end which restricting the power. With the right fuelling I reckon I could get closer to 400bhp still at 1.3bar.

Just need some more money !!!

Si
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No sign of lightspeed yet then :(

I think the problem is the injectors. Following on from one of lightspeeds earlier posts, the standard injectors with uprated fuel pump and a squashed regulator will limit me to 400hp, and may run lean, resulting in higher than normal EGT. Looks like 750cc injectors are probably the way to go.

Does anyone have any idea of where to get these, and is the mapping going to be a nightmare?

The turbo is a TD06SHL2-20g. Not sure what the SH is all about. Think it is 8cm. This should be good for 450hp. Can be upgraded to 10cm, which is good for 500hp. Efficiency wise, it is still 72% efficient at 450hp, where the standard turbo is around 330hp for that efficiency.

Should I also remove the cold start piping now as well? Need to work out whether the fuel pump is man 4 it too - it is the PE upgraded one. Probably isn't :(
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I already rewired the cold start piping a long time ago! Do it now! It will keep the intake temp lower.

HKS make injectors, dont know the sizes though.

Fuel pump. I've got the 61 GPH from Walbro (RC Developments supplied). Flows 4,5 idle and 6,2 bars at max boost (on std turbo). How much do you need? RC also told me how much it flows at 1,2,3 and 4 bars, but I forgot as this is the most important ot remember...
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm also dumping to atmosphere, but I don't know if I am getting flames or not.

About the injectors, check RC Engineering's website to calculate the size of injector you need. I odn't know if the Mitsu. Eclipse injectors work with the later Evos but you can get 720cc injectors for them for about $500.00.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Blade,

there are slight differences between the TD-06L2 and SH. The SH has a T3 turbine wheel whereas the L2 has a slightly smaller turbine wheel. The L2 is more expensive and having a smaller turbine would make it spin up quicker, measurements as follows:

Compressor wheel Turbine wheel

Greddy TD06SH-20G 2.677 2.559
Greddy TD06L2-20G 2.677 2.401
Greddy T67-25G 3.07 2.402

Basically, the TD-06 has a compressor wheel sized somewhere between a T3 and a T4 and exhaust wheel around the same as a T3.

The T67 has a compressor bigger than a T4 but with the same exhaust wheel as the L2.

I assume the L2 is a newer design, thats the only way I can see it being more expensive.

Si
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you guys are inerested in getting parts for you cars you can check out these American site:
www.dsmtrader.com is the best bet for parts for EVOs.. then there is www.thepartstrader.com it has a variety of differents cars on it.

If you want more info on the American 4g63's then go the the main US DSM site. www.dsm.org

As for the injectors you might be able to get away with 680cc.. but the 720's are the same price. As for finding them, go to the sites I suggested.. the average price for 4 720's is about $300-350 USD.. that's usually cleaned and flow tested by RC Engineering. Or if you want to buy them new, you can call RC http://www.rceng.com/ they generally have the the best prices.. and one of the biggest and famous shops.

RC also has a injector calculator on their site.. But its not very good for your cars. use the first formula.. then divide it by 2..

here is another place taht seel injectors in th US
http://pages.cfu.net/~static/ken/gp.html

I hope this helps!
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Simon, apparently mine is the TD06SL2-20G. Sorry, must have typoed, but which one is that then??? Seems to spool up as quick as the old one by all accounts.

So far, my power is similar to yours (and similar to what it was before!) 380bhp at 1.3 bar, somwhere above 7000rpm. This is much better than before (was 380/385bhp at 6100rpm at 1.75 bar). Problem is simple - run out of fuel. Seen well over 400 at higher boost, but EGT is through the roof. The injectors are at 95% now, so running wide open. Haven't even set the cams to high power settings with the verniers as the fuel just isn't there.

Downside is that Mervyn at PE is now in OZ for 6 weeks, so must wait till he comes back. Pretty sure I need a new fuel rail and injectors (not sure size, 720cc seems favourite - think 625 or 650 is too small). The turbo is apparently 72% efficient at 450bhp, so I am pretty sure it will get there. Given the way it spools up, I will be happy with that! You can modify it with a 10cm wheel to get more flow ( up to about 750 I think) which will see 500bhp, but more lag.

1.6/1.7 bar should give 450bhp with the right fuelling. New pressure regulator, aeroquip fuel lines and double check the pump too!!
Will have to wait till March 4 that though :(

The T67 is really TD067-25g. It is a hybrid between the TD06 and TD07. Given that the TD07 is a diesel truck only turbo, the lag should be quite bad with this turbo. Stroker kit required me thinks! I think that flows to 850... not sure... where as the 20g is at 650. There are modified 20gs that will flow to 850 or more too, in the US. Not sure if there is anyone in the UK who can modify these.

Have heard that the 20g is not that reliable at high boost (1.9/2.0 bar) - also think fuelling will be a problem too (need rocket fuel).

Still, at least I have a much better power curve and wider power band, even if it did cost £3.5k to get it! Roll on March...
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Who is in charge of the tuning? It sounds very suspect to me if it is the same people that have done all this... Which professional tuner would not know what injectors to use or how much fuel is needed? These are relatively simple to estimate, so I don't really understand why somebody would fit a turbo and THEN find out the fuelling system isn't up to the job. Very unprofessional.... And also, what ECU are they using?
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
torabora - part of the work we are doing is to find the limits of each component, and at what level they need changing. Yes, we could put it all on at the same time, but part of what the tuner is doing is to offer different tuning packages using various components fitted to my car. Makes it a pain for me, but a benefit for others and was part of our initial agreement. You can easily calculate what injectors theoretically fit, but cannot calculate how good standard ones work at 90% etc without actually trying it out (tech specs not always being equal to reality).

So if someone else goes and asks for a 380hp conversion, they know exactly what needs replacing and what doesn't as they have tested the various combinations.

You obviously don't know my car - suggest you look at http:/homepage.ntlworld.com/tony.rodriguez and you will realise how much work has been done and how professionally it has been done, and it will answer your other questions about what parts and who is doing the work, although the site is now very much out of date (car has changed alot since then).

Alternatively look at February's Banzai Magazine which you can order from http://www.banzaimagazine.com
 
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