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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My car vibrates like mad when you brake at anything over 60mph, lower than that it's fine.
Are the brakes warped?? if they are why under 60mph are the brakes fine??
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hi Chuck,

You seem to have the same problem as many of the Evo Owners, Warped Discs.
Warped discs are very common among E4/5 and amp;6's, I suggest that you look at all the old
topics relating to this. There is no apparent cure for this problem, and many owners have decided to change their brake setup.
The recommended option is to upgrade to an AP caliper and disc system, which seems to have cured the problem during initial trials and feedback from members who have installed the new conversion.
The person to speak to is Alan Zini from Dragon Autosport on 01206865444, who is extremely helpful and will give you expert advice on any problem that you might have.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Can you solve the problem by changing only the discs?I think that Dragon discs are very good and they don´t get warped.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yep you have the dreaded warped discs. Mine only judder when braking from over 100mph and goes completely below about 70-80mph (obviously on a track only though).
It seems that there is a combination of problems that cause the discs to warp which makes it harder to rectify completely.
Due to this it is not strictly true about the Dragon Discs being unwarpable as people have reported warping (only in a couple of cases though and Dragon have sorted those out I believe) BUT Dragon are on the case (as always!) and have just sourced some pads that should solve the problem hopefully once and for all.
I will be getting the Dragon kit hopefully next week with the revised pad selection ready for fitting at the weekend.
Those people with the Dragon kit without the revised Mintex pads or cut down Brembo's may want to contact Dragon for more information about this latest upgraded.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
hello there,

andre and myself tried everything: AP discs, dragon discs, all kind of brake pads and fluids, easy inbraking not with the foot on brake peddal, cooling the discs for hunderds of laps. ec. ec.

conclusion. nothing helps, still warped discs. the brembo brake system is NOT ok and there lies the truble.

the only solution is changing the coplete system, by a 6 pot AP if you can affort it, we are saving already some money.

sorry for the english but we are from holland.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Dragon have realised the problem lies in many aspects of the system. The OE discs being of poor quality/casting, the OE pads being too big and thus overheating the disc in certain areas, and a batch of the actual hubs itself being of poor quality/tolerance which promotes warping whatever system you fit. I won't go into details as it gets complicated and I forget everything I was told.
At the end of the day the Brembo calipers are OK its just everything else that seems crap!
The Dragon system consists of seperate Discs and Bells which will prevent heat transfer to the bell. A revised smaller pad has just been suggested to prevent uneven heating and thus warping of the disc which has occured a couple of times. At the time of writing only one person has the complete new set up with the new Mintex pads as they have only just been sourced (they have been specially machined at the factory to Dragon specs). I have been told that the new set-up is running fine with no problems reported at all.
I should be getting this new kit next week as a new batch of the pads should be in by then. I should be able to fit it ready for the Rally Day 5th May if you want a look. Dragon Motorsport will also be at the Rally day if you want a chat with them or give Alan Zini a ring on 01206 865444.

Of course going the AP 6-pot route should cure it aswell (providing your hub is OK) but it seems an extremely expensive cure when the Dragon kit is available for a 3rd of the AP price.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
We heard this story about the hubs to, tell us more about that. what could go wrong with the hubs and why??
the day before I drove with my OZ wheels, (on the road no problems with my AP discs) yesterday I changed wheels. Techno Magnesio's specially made for the evo6. all over sudden : Massive vibration at high speeds, clear out of the bleu!! what the f... is going on.

are there better quality Hubs for sale????????????

what will eventualy solve the problem??
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am only going on what I have heard from several sources but it has been found that a batch of hubs are not quite as good a quality as they should be. i.e. I believe their run-out tolerances are not exactly upto scratch!
I think a better explaination is needed though so can the person out there who experienced the problem and had it fixed by Dragon please explain! Or better still perhaps Alan can reply to this thread.

As to the smaller pads, I have been told that the actual pad friction material is machined down. This means the backing plate is the same size (so fitting is not a problem) but the friction material is smaller, it may just be less deep but I got the impression the contact surface area was reduced. The pads that Dragon supply are Mintex competition type (I forget the number) machined to Dragon specs at Mintex.

Stan, I assume your magnesium rims/tyres were balanced? If your standard Evo rims were OK then your Magnesiums should be OK if balanced and bolted on correctly.

Evowilly, the hubs are the things the brake discs are bolted onto (easiest explaination!). Refer to the smaller pads answer above for your other question.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thanks HHsix.

Yes my new magn rims and tyres were perfectly balanced. when I drive without braking everything is OK.
now I have been told that the BEL ( witch is of light and thin alluminium, on AP that is) has been damaged by the different hart of the wheel because the design of this wheel is different in comperasin with the standard OZ . So changing different kind of wheels is NOT OK for the Bell, that is : for light allu.bells) also the dragon Bell is made of a very nice, but light and fragile material. carefull.
Tomorrow I am going to put my standard disc back on my EVO, I'll let you know.
buy.
Stan.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
i charge 200 guilders for half an hour stan

have a nice dayhttp://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/happy1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >

regards

andre
going sideways
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Something to look out for with alloy bells then, thanks.

If you just get vibration under braking then it probably is the bells which would be a pain in arse for you! I suppose now you will find that AP don't do seperate bells! I hope you sort it out and its not too expensive.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi Guys

Probabaly cannot help you with the bells but I know a little about the Dragon brakes as they were tested and developed on my car. I have had no problems with them, Mk2's or Mk3's and I tried really hard on the Donnington GP circuit and if any one knows their tracks the Melbourne loop kills brakes. Full day there and still no warping or fade at any time. (New brake fliud helps). One thing is, I have heard from Alan that If you overtighten your wheel nuts you may warp your hubs as they are flimsy anyway. Just a thought when you take the brakes off clean them until they are spotless then check how flat they are with a straight edge. There should be no gaps if there are the the hub is warped and any brakes you put on will warp as the hub is warped. Simple really. Make sure to take time as well as just bolting on a new disc without deglazing and lubricating it first is a disaster waiting to happen.

Thorak
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Deglaze and lubricate?
Please enlighten me. I realise they usually have protective anti corrosion film on them but lubricate? Whats the process?
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi HH6

Sorry maybe I better rephrase that otherwise everyone will get paranoid.Clean and then protect from rust are the simplest terms I can use. they do use a protective film well it looks kind of coppery in colour but not really sure what they use so I cannot comment. When they have done my brakes, (Trust me they have taken then on and off more times than I would like to mention) The hub and inner wall of the brake bell are cleaned until they are spotless. Then they are smeared by a coppery coloured film (Not sure what I will ask Alan later), lets just say no face is left the same colour when it started. then add the washer that replaces the heat shield. These are removed when you change discs because it allows more heat to be disspated. then basically put brakes discs back on making sure it mates properly then bolt down.

Thorak
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
put the standard discs on yesterday, cleaned the hub and the bell very thouroughly (??what a word, must be written wrong??)
the bolds are tignent 110 NM
testdrive: still the same problem, over 140 km/our vibrations with light braking. So my hubs must be gone.
Is there a better quality hubs available?????????

Thorak and amp;lt; is that stuf not called copper grease. they put it also behind your brake pads. or im a wrong.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Just got my Dragon Disc kit this morning with the new spec. cut down Mintex pads. (HURRAH!)
I am in the middle of fitting them following Alans written instuctions and now I realise what you meant by clean and lubricate!
Alan doesn't actually state about lubricating the mating surfaces with copper grease but it is common sense not to leave the newly cleaned hub in bare metal! I was worried a bit about knocking out the studs to clean the hub properly but they came out easier than expected (unlike the locking wheel nuts!).

As I said I am currently half way through one side (just coating up with grease before reassembley) and I am taking piccies as I go in order to do an article on the kit for the club mag. I will post some piccies on here when done.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi Guys

I not sure if there are any better quality hubs out there. But they are relatively cheap to replace. Well
£120-130 from Co-ordsport plus the dreaded VAT and amp; shipping. I know its a pain but if they are warped then whatever brake setup (AP racing , Dragon) you have will warp the brakes.

Bit silly really! copper grease, At least you guys recognised it from my description. I suppose that says it all. Also HH6 take your time to bed the brakes in properly. They may squeal like a pig at first but keep at it, I have Mintex 1144's in at the mo and they have quieten do a lot.

Thorak
 
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