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Madmac Motorsport's Twincharged Evo 5

598112 Views 2421 Replies 217 Participants Last post by  Madmac, 
Madmac
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During the winter build of the old Evo 5 hillclimb slag I decided to look at ways of reducing the turbo lag which was becoming an issue and costing precious hundredths of seconds on the hills last year. It never lacked top end power but the lag really started to get to me and i knew i could make it quicker point to point by reducing the lag - but keeping top end power.
I looked at many possible ways to do this but in the end settled for adding a supercharger to run in conjunction with the turbo.

Designed and built by myself with input from friends and members on MLR, most parts have been fabricated in my garage from whatever was lying around, the end result has been worth the blood, Sweat and tears I've put into this.

We've had her on the dyno at Wallace Performance in Aberdeen and had surprisingly few teething problems considering the unknowns and the huge amount of bespoke parts that needed to be designed, fabricated and made. Initial mapping is done now and the whole package is showing some serious potential! We've decided to keep the system at it's minimum until i do reliability tests and learn how to drive it properly :angel:

I've also designed and built a tubular front subframe and arms (total 9Kg:D) to reduce front weight and while i was at it, it seemed rude not to play with the suspension geometry!

I want to thank a few people for their input and help:

Russ and the guys at Wallace Performance who did the mapping and supplied parts/tea/banter etc. Top guys and never ones to shy from a challenge! Can't thank you enough:smthumbup:D. http://www.wallaceperformance.co.uk/

My mate Steve Marr who is the main technical guru, and who i regularly bugged to ask lots of questions on a daily basis:smthumbup.

My mate Graeme Wight Jnr for his help with the front subframe and major suspension geometry changes, Exhaust and general setting up

Alan Young Engineering Ltd for the quality machined bespoke pulleys and parts, Spot-on parts and great prices http://www.timingbeltpulleys.co.uk/pages/home.php

And everyone else who suffered because of my constant lust for knowledge during the build:smthumbup:D

As yet i've to do some miles and get her setup for the start of the 2010 Scottish Sprint & Hillclimb Championship, so for the moment i'm being realistic about expectations & screwing the nut until i check everything over and get used to driving it. Hoping to do some track testing soon though. I've had her out for a short drive and so far the whole package is working impressively. Instant delivery at anything above 2500rpm with absolutely awesome accelleration in every gear! This is on it's lowest boost setting too....

Over the next few months The guys at Wallace Performance & I are going to refine some of the setup and see what she's really capable of! We know we can find a lot more power & torque with some simple changes.

Meantime i'm happy with the initial results and looking forward to Doune Hillclimb in 2 weeks:D:D Should be fun!

Keep watching....;)

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Madmac
Have tiddles back here again ready to start work for next season. First thing will be to check my prototype front subframe fits the assembly jig I've built from the 3D computer model ;)

Some interesting developments ahead :D
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P
Hope it's not too long for these frames :)
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Madmac
Have been doing a wee bit of work to tiddles the last week as I've an entry for doune hillclimb next weekend. The new engine has been bedded-in and AFR checked so she's good to go for a final blast of the season. It's been over a year since I drove her in anger, I'm not expecting any particularly quick times, and last year's rubber isn't going to be good for records so it's just for fun :angel:

Plans moving forward is to make a few changes to the twincharger to improve a couple of problem areas that have shown up as weaknesses lately and get some more weight off the front end.

I've booked a local track for an hour next week to get some seat time and logs.

I'll update in due course ;)
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M
Sounds great Donald. Get some graphs up then! Been a long time since we've seen anything. Looking forward to some more updates now you're back on it.
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Madmac
Sure, I'll post up what I have later today
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Madmac
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These 2 are from last time I was on a dyno July last year. The dip in boost is due to bypass control not quite being as good as it could be due to it being pneumatic operation at the time. The initial setup I built was a compound system with the bypass only being used to unload the supercharger at low throttle or idle. These graphs are from when we took ecu control of the bypass and opened it at target boost to allow turbo to do its thing. Certainly improvement but the bypass inside the Harrop supercharger is quite small so it can only bypass a portion of the turbo flow. This is something I'll address over the winter

The engine is making better power at less boost so that development showed potential. It just needs refined now.

Bear in mind this is on 'pump' fuel as it's all we can use at MSA events.

You'll have to turn your monitor on its side as I can't rotate the images on my phone. ��

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A
Amazing stuff going on here!
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Donald, 830bhp on pump.

Amazing.

Wonder, how long can the engine run, say if instead you were doing track-lapping, while controlling thermal load?

Let me rephrase: what power would be realistic to put out to enable 30 minute track race driving?
600bhp?
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Madmac
alpinaturbo said:
Donald, 830bhp on pump.

Amazing.

Wonder, how long can the engine run, say if instead you were doing track-lapping, while controlling thermal load?

Let me rephrase: what power would be realistic to put out to enable 30 minute track race driving?
600bhp?
Click to expand...
If the cooling system is able to get rid of the heat from the water and coolant is circulating at the required rate then there's no reason why 30 mins around a circuit would cause any heat issues with 830hp. Tiddles has a minimal cooling system and no oil cooler which is why I don't do circuits.
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Donald,

did you cut-out rear arches to allow full wheel travel, you know the metal-work under the rear doors: if you did could you share some pics?

I believe that actually there was a homologated modification here to cut some metal..I had photo of homologation legal mod, but lost it over time.

Your power makes this car simply a weapon: I cannot imagine what's it like to drive at full tilt.
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Madmac
alpinaturbo said:
Donald,

did you cut-out rear arches to allow full wheel travel, you know the metal-work under the rear doors: if you did could you share some pics?

I believe that actually there was a homologated modification here to cut some metal..I had photo of homologation legal mod, but lost it over time.

Your power makes this car simply a weapon: I cannot imagine what's it like to drive at full tilt.
Click to expand...
I folded the downturn back on itself as we're not allowed to remove metal from the shell anywhere between the axles. I'll try and get a photo soon.

As for driving it. Yea it's pretty rapid on a twisty track. On a wide circuit she would be relatively tame but on the 12ft wide tracks we use for hillclimbs it's sometimes a handful and it would be easy to get it wrong :eek:

The low down torque and response from the system is awesome and the spread of torque and power allows less gear changes and better traction. There's no sudden boost to catch you out :D
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Donald,

based on my experience, 600bhp, driving all out on road is intense and if not closed is manic. Driving 850bhp in lightened race car on narrow lane must be as intense as shifter kart or more...without luxury to gently bump and keep on going.

What is impressive is that Evo chassis can deliver it and feel adequate and confidence inspiring.
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Madmac
alpinaturbo said:
Donald,

based on my experience, 600bhp, driving all out on road is intense and if not closed is manic. Driving 850bhp in lightened race car on narrow lane must be as intense as shifter kart or more...without luxury to gently bump and keep on going.

What is impressive is that Evo chassis can deliver it and feel adequate and confidence inspiring.
Click to expand...
This is the reason why she's not road legal nowadays, it's just too mental for public roads and trying to drive sensibly is all but impossible :lol:
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e70mr
Will you be back out next season? be nice to see it back up doune, hope the weather clears up for this weekend there
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Madmac
That's the plan, a full season. It's depending on how the winter work goes tbh. I have a few big projects on this year.

I managed to get the local track for an hour tomorrow morning for a shakedown. Don't particularly want to be launching off the line at doune and into the first corner in a completely untested car :eek:
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4G63EvO
Good luck for tomorrow Donald.

Jon.
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Unobtainium
Madmac said:
These 2 are from last time I was on a dyno July last year.

The engine is making better power at less boost so that development showed potential. It just needs refined now.
Click to expand...
Hi Donald,
We're a bit confused as that engine exploded at Harewood?

Madmac said:
Bear in mind this is on 'pump' fuel as it's all we can use at MSA events.
Click to expand...
You told me last year that that graph was on MSA approved Sunoco RMR mate, rather than pump?

Madmac;5700757I said:
managed to get the local track for an hour tomorrow morning for a shakedown.
Click to expand...
I presume that means you have a new engine and a new graph, so why put up the old graph?

Come on old pal, lets see the latest graph? Who mapped it this time and will you be trying for the Harewood Hill record next year?

Your car is awesome and almost got the record with a missfire, so on the right day when things go right, I reckon you'll bet into the 57s.

Good luck for next season mate and I hope you're enjoying your trackday today....any in car video would be appreciated by us all. :)
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Madmac
Kenny, after the trouble you DELIBERATELY caused and the lack of any apology for being a dick I have absolutely no desire to entertain your comments, however for the sake of the thread I'll answer this time.

Unobtainium said:
Hi Donald,
We're a bit confused as that engine exploded at Harewood?
Click to expand...
Yes it did. You know that. These graphs are from that engine. What point are you trying to make? You're always confused it seems.

Unobtainium said:
You told me last year that that graph was on MSA approved Sunoco RMR mate, rather than pump?
Click to expand...
Pump fuel is to a BS standard rather than an octane number. Sunoco is that BS standard and it is classed as pump fuel by the MSA and legal to be used at MSA events. I call it pump fuel because it is pump fuel in the eyes of any competitor. I use it because it's consistent and it stores for long periods. You already know this.

Unobtainium said:
I presume that means you have a new engine and a new graph, so why put up the old graph?
Click to expand...
I have a new engine, not a new graph. If I had a new graph I would have posted it up. The new engine is the same as the old engine and today's testing was to log AFR and check the map is safe. It is still running on the map exactly as it left Simons dyno when those graphs were created. I will be running it on low boost at Doune as the track at Alford is too small to get any decent full throttle running, plus it was wet. Once I have better data I may increase the boost.

Unobtainium said:
Come on old pal, lets see the latest graph? Who mapped it this time and will you be trying for the Harewood Hill record next year?

Your car is awesome and almost got the record with a missfire, so on the right day when things go right, I reckon you'll bet into the 57s.

Good luck for next season mate and I hope you're enjoying your trackday today....any in car video would be appreciated by us all. :)
Click to expand...
Kenny, I generally don't post anything to create conflict but after the fact that you posted on an open forum a private email from my email account that has been proven to be obtained illegally (which I told you before you posted it), I have no desire to ever speak to you or see you again. I told you that a while back and told you that your version of events was untrue, yet you still did it, and here you are again thinking i'll forgive you and treat you with respect :shake:

Don't ever call me 'mate' or 'pal' again. You are not my mate, you are a keyboard warrior with a very strange idea of what is right and wrong. There was a time we spoke and I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you've proven yourself an untrustworthy backstabbing buffoon and I have zero respect for you. Realise that if you do things like what you did, you won't have any friends.

I would prefer if you just left out posting on this thread as all you do is try and cause trouble. I'm sure i'm not alone with that thought.

Please respect that you and I will never be 'mates' and stop trying to cause trouble, thank you.

For everyone else, I'll update with details from today later :smthumbup
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Madmac
Doune hillclimb and the first proper outing for Tiddles with the new engine at the weekend.

The low boost issue came back to haunt me on Saturday which on the face of it appeared to be a boost leak, however going through the logged data it pointed to a wastegate problem. The wastegate checked out ok and thanks to Russ Paton a new solenoid was sourced and fitted which appears to have cured the problem. The old solenoid tested ok electrically and pulsed fine under test but assume it must have had a problem mechanically. I tested the pipework on Friday at 40psi and there were no leaks found.

Saturday practice went ok at 1.3bar with the best time recorded a 46.78s. There was a hold up as the police had to go up the hill to find an escaped convict seen running through the trees in the afternoon :lol:

Sunday first practice and after fitting the new solenoid she was boosting at 2.4bar and went well off the line but I turned the boost down mid run as I didn't want to be pushing the new engine too hard just yet. I only got one competition run as it rained just before the 2nd run and with nothing to prove I decided there was no way I'd improve on the time.

The car drove into the trailer pretty much as she arrived so that's what I call a successful event :lol:

It was great to drive her again after 14 months and nice to blow the cobwebs out. A mid 46s run at 1.6bar was a comfortable run and she's handling well, even on last years tyres which are usually around a second down at Doune. The Avons suffer going hard after a few uses so I'm happy with the weekend. This boost problem has been coming and going for a couple of years and also while on the dyno at Simons so it's good to finally have found the problem :smthumbup

Now onto the winter work however that depends on a few factors. She may come back out next year largely as she is now but if I can afford to take the plunge i'll be moving up to the M150 ECU and power distribution module/dash and keypad although that involves a full rewire of the car too, plus a bit of dyno time to setup the bypass. The M800 is pretty much maxed out and there's concern that it's approaching the limit on processing speed.

The in car video isn't the best - the scrutineers asked me to fit a tie to the camera just before the run and the end of the tye-wrap worked its way into the view :lol:


I'll update as and when there's something to update ;)
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4G63EvO
Nice drive Donald, glad you enjoyed it.

Jon.
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