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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okey dokey. Lots of remapping done yesterday (11 hours of it). Damn that standard turbo.

Just cannot get over 1.8 bar peak, and past 380bhp. Very strong power to 6500rpm, then it falls away. Still has 340bhp available at 7500rpm, and a new limit of 8100rpm.
Torque is 355 lb/ft at 3500rpm. Mildly reworking the exhaust outlet and the compressor wheel achieved no real change. EGT is pretty good, lower than a standard car on 1.5 bar - probably thanks to the elbow and downpipe and lack of cat (and big exhaust bore). Power curve looks best at 1.5bar, which is probably when the stock turbo is performing at it's best without major losses.


All in all very pleased, but obviously can't stop here. Almost decided on the new turbo, it will be either :-

a) The Trust/Greddy 20g add-on kit (ext. wastegate, tubular manifold, turbo, downpipe etc.)
b) On of the US modified 20g kits.

Have ruled out HKS on a) availability grounds (can't get one) and b) reliability grounds (bad reports on Garrett turbos from the US 4G63 tuners).

Both options require bigger injectors (650cc probably, maybe bigger).

I think I will shoot for 450bhp, hopefully at around 1.6 to 1.7 bar. All I really want now is to sustain the power curve to around 8000rpm, to get the best out of the new internals. There will be more lag, so I expect peak torque to move to around 4000, maybe 4500rpm.

None of this will happen until late December, so will report back late Jan with the info.

If anyone has any thoughts/advice, please post.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Blade,
What ECU are you planning to go to with this upgrade then, I thought you had said which one in another thread but I couldn't find it

Ryan
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
as a peace offering,rc developments do a hybrid turbo and i have spoken at length to usa makers of frankenstein turbos,as they call them,but as someone has pointed out,you do have to confirm the rotation !

i imagine you will have problems dealing with rc AND power though,politically.
i have had products and help from both,and cannot fault either of them
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Peace offering accepted! Yes, was looking at the Frankenstein stuff, and lots more. Have shoved the whole lot over to Power to sort out.

I suspect you are right about RC - if I went there, they may decide to slag off what PE did, and PE would probably disown me - and I can't be bothered with all that crap!

Also Warrington is a tad too far for me!
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Dedeffa, standard ECU - still don't see the need to change, unless I need to get into very complex boost mapping (which I don't think I do).
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
oh, I thought you said you'd need to when you fit bigger injectors or when you start running higher boost?
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Tony

I spoke to Dragon Autosport a whole ago about some mods and they had some very positive comments about a range of turbo's they have been fitting to Evo's. Sorry, cant remember what they were though! Might be worth a call all the same.

Dave
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
interesting this, confirms what the turbo compressor map shows that you won't get any more air than will produce ~380hp no matter how fast the turbo spins.

Obvious advice is to go for the smallest turbo that will meet your power needs. Probably if you just upgraded the compressor wheel to a slightly larger one then you would not lose out so much on the mid range as the exhaust wheel would still be driving it as hard. I know for some turbos Apexi do a complete range of housings, but dunno for the Evo turbo.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So you get 40bhp from 7500 to 8100??? 380bhp

Get yourself a Greddy, 25g and antilag for 450bhp.

Should of done that from the start, PE should of realised they could never get passed 380.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oli goon

What if you get cooler air in there? Like with a better i/c?

Blade: Have PE taken out the cold start help on your engine? My rallye team did because they had a pb getting too hot air in (100 C) and after only got 57 C.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Chuck, didn't understand your question. Car has 380bhp at 6500rpm, drops to 340 at 7500, rev limit is at 8100.
I thought the 25g is too big. The 20g should be easily good for 450bhp according to the info lightspeed gave me, although Greddy themselves only list it at 425bhp max. If you have more info on this, would appreciate it. I really don't want antilag!

PE did know the standard turbo would be a limit, but part of the joint effort is to find and prove the limits of the standard engine and turbo. For people who can't afford new turbos, they can see how far the standard engine can go. They are very conservative and want to prove everything a step at a time, which is good.

We have run the boost at 2bar, but the increases are mostly torque, and a little more power. It just isn't worth it though for the massive increase in EGT and the potential for overspeeding the turbo. At 1.7-1.8 bar it is still reasonable efficient. The engine is at it's best (power curve) at 1.5 bar. My car is the most powerful EVO they have ever rollered (may change after Simon Evo goes there next week!), far more than RS450s.

One thing though, it does make the claims of people like RC, who say they produce 398bhp with standard internals and standard turbo, look a little weak!

Claudius, don't know anything about the cold start thing, will find out...
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oh, Chuck, the other reason for leaving the turbo to last was that

a) PE wanted to work the internals first (so that they work on getting gains outside of the engine)
b) I was convinced we could get 400bhp without a new turbo, because I didn't understand the flow restrictions on the outlet of the turbo until recently.

I also suspect the figures to be slightly more than 380bhp, just because the car continually slips on the rollers (because of the slicks).

It is fúcking quick whatever the figures are!
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Last message didn't make sense when I read it back! I meant PE wanted to work on the internals first, so that future tuning gains could be had from messing around with things like fuelling, ECU, turbo, throttle bodies etc. - all external to the engine. Hence the focus on pistons, headwork, cams etc.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes indeed! I have something to prove too, as it will be exactly a year since my first track day which was at Donnington, and where I was pants! I don't intend to be pants this time! :D :D
 
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