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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

Car is going in for its first mapping session. It has all of the usual 'stage 1' breathing and fuelling upgrades so far.

My question is:
Will I see any gains from fitting Kelford 272 cams if I am still running the factory Viii FQ300 (non MR) **9.8t turbo? I understand this could restrict the peak power achievable.

Thanks in advance :)

Cheers
Steve
 

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I had stage 1 mods on my evo 8 mr wit standard turbo. Had it mapped before and after i fitted my cams (skunk 2- 264 inlet 272 exhaust) went from 403bhp to 417bhp and 370ft/lb torque to 390 ft/lb torque! So pretty good gain if you ask me
 

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I had stage 1 mods on my evo 8 mr wit standard turbo. Had it mapped before and after i fitted my cams (skunk 2- 264 inlet 272 exhaust) went from 403bhp to 417bhp and 370ft/lb torque to 390 ft/lb torque! So pretty good gain if you ask me
Don't just look at peak torque look at where it's delivered :smthumbup
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Why is that?
The durations are the same, but the lift is greater on the kelford units?
Do the standard springs become coil bound?

I'm keeping peak engine rpms at the standard limit.
 

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Anthony
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Yes the lift is the problem, anything over about 10.7 mm lift and you need to upgrade springs.
There are many Cams that would be far better for what you are saying you want. TOMEI Poncam 260's, drop right in and will give you the best all round performance gain for drop in Cams. Anything bigger is a total waste of time especially as you are not planing to over rev it. Kelford 272's are pretty aggressive and will need aftermarket springs.
The Turbo you have will be better than an 80 series in most situations as well. Just focusing on peak numbers invariably results in an overall slower car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thankyou, this is the kind of answer I was looking for.
'Just because everyone else does' isn't reason enough for me :)

I have bought myself an 80 series from rosssport. The standard 9.8t exhaust housing would be the restricting factor, cams or not from what I've gathered.

From the graphs I've seen the kelfords seen to work well within the standard rev range?

I wouldn't class them as being that wild myself, as still a hydraulic lifter suited profile and therefore can't really go much past 8k peak anyway.

My knowledge of this engine is still limited but the general principles are similar.
 

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Anthony
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My knowledge of this engine is still limited but the general principles are similar.
Yes and no. A fair portion of the 'tuning logic' applied to other cars, is not the best way with the 4G63, although that tends to be the most common approach anyway, and people will always try and justify their choices especially on Forums (and at the Pub).

The reality though is that most Evo's are tuned in the wrong way for anything but long Track work, with big Turbo, big cams, late torque, conservative timing, focus only on boost.
It should be medium Turbo, high lift cams, early torque, and as much timing as you can get right through the rev range. Then as much boost only as you need.

If you want the best all round performance, the 80 series is not the best choice. It was designed to work with Mivec. I have done a huge amount of research on OEM Turbos, and have helped many people with Turbo choices, I would only recommend an 80 series for Drag Racing, or Track work on long tracks or tracks with relatively gentle corners. The best all round OEM Turbo is easily the Evo VI / Evo VIII RS Turbo (TD06HRA 16G 10.5T).

As you have bought an 80 series already, you can still make it work ok, but if you go over around 265 degrees total Cam duration, you will lose down low. If you go over 268 degrees duration, you will lose more and more down low. Also get the torque tuned in as low as possible.
If you use the Tomei Cams I suggested, or very similar, you will get the best all round results even if you use an 80 series. These cams will easily make power to 7500 rpm (but over 7000 rpm is not healthy for the conrods).

My standard engine with 94,000 klms on it makes 377 hp at the wheels (450~460 BHP), 49 Kg/m Torque at 3967 rpm with the above Turbo and TOMEI cams. I regularly am faster than more powerful cars at track days. The tighter the track, the easier it is. The key to making these fast is not just chasing the big peak numbers on a Dyno, the key is to take advantage of and increase the low~mid range strengths that the engine has (and was designed for). In other words, the power under the curve.

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I said similar, not the same. ;-)

You have said a few times about what I am aiming for and my intended use for this engine. I haven't actually said what that is.

I appreciate the technical input and answering my queries and taking the time to post.
 

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I've read that they're almost the same as the GSC S1 (TOMEI).

Turbo wise I've read that the best choice for that kind of power would be the hks 7460r kai
 

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Anthony
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You have said a few times about what I am aiming for and my intended use for this engine. I haven't actually said what that is.
I was going by:

Maybe worth putting the money towards an 80 series turbo, instead of 272 cams?

See more gains across the rev range....
Does anyone know.....
Is it acceptable to run Kelford 272 on the standard valve springs?
Why is that?
The durations are the same, but the lift is greater on the kelford units?
Do the standard springs become coil bound?

I'm keeping peak engine rpms at the standard limit.
I seem to have mistakenly :confused: taken these comments as questions and indicators that you would like the best performance possible within the factory rev limit....

oh well :rolleyes:
.
 
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