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I am very well aware of what AYC is and it is going to stop to the biggest possible degree the back end from stepping out in conjunction with ACD if you keep applying throttle to it accordingly.
A 50\50 AWD car isn't going to power oversteer so what is the AYC stopping from happening? Why would Mitsubishi spend all that money developing something for a problem the car doesn't have? When I'm mid turn ACD is open and doing nothing so what is it stopping from happening? You know what happens in a non-AYC AWD car when you apply too much power through a corner? It understeers. You know what an AYC-equipped AWD car does when you apply too much power through a corner? It undresteers. Want to know why? Physics.

You can say you know what it does as much as you want, but the things you are saying on here contradict that.

If a car such is the evo depended solely on lateral momentum to reach a degree where it is no more stressing the car/tyres so as to gain grip again
I didn't say that. I'll cut you some slack as I assume English isn't your first language, but the "\" means "either or".

If you want the AYC/ACD system to work you need to apply throttle to it accordingly
As I've already said, ACD is an open-diff mid corner so what exactly is it needing throttle for? And yes AYC needs throttle but you do know that the car drives just fine when AYC isn't active, right? You do know that AWD offers pretty good traction on its own and evos are permanent AWD? If you've gone beyond the limits of what AYC can do for you then it doesn't matter much what you do with the throttle.

there will be no oversteering nor fish tailing as you call it, assuming of course that you do know how to drive your car.
Agreed, but it's a common mistake to make and needs practice to overcome.
 

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Pull the fuse to your system. Go to an open place and drive like a loon. Refit fuse, drive like a loon again. If you notice a difference it works

Then get back on the road and drive normal and don't worry whether it's working or not as majority won't know from road driving.

I keep hearing people say about getting the car to its limits on the road, it's probably advisable to no do that and try a trackday etc
 

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A 50\50 AWD car isn't going to power oversteer so what is the AYC stopping from happening? Why would Mitsubishi spend all that money developing something for a problem the car doesn't have? When I'm mid turn ACD is open and doing nothing so what is it stopping from happening? You know what happens in a non-AYC AWD car when you apply too much power through a corner? It understeers. You know what an AYC-equipped AWD car does when you apply too much power through a corner? It undresteers. Want to know why? Physics.

A 50/50 AWD car from an a 50/50 AWD can differ greatly as a differential is not the only factor to a car behaviour, many other aspects of a car come into action, and yes a 50/50 AWD car can and will either oversteer or understeer. The reason mitsubishi created the AYC/ACD system as these too were developed to work together and not independantly, is for the same reason other companies creared similar systems named differently, and that is to aid traction and driving stability. Firstly not all evos are running an ACD open diff, secondly I said the AYC is stopping at the best degree possible the tail of the car to slide out if you apply the right amount of throttle to it, as for the mid turn comment of yours in which you actually admit that an open diff offers no benefit in traction, thus the main aid, differential wise, to you to keep the car planted on the road is the AYC, but to further enhance traction and to help the AYC, mitsi changed that to an LS diff on the MR model, the AYC will fall in and aid traction IF you apply the right amount of throttle to it.

No I don't know and no it does not necessarily understeer, nor oversteer as I pveviously said other factors fall into place which also affect greatly the handling of either an AYC or non AYC equipped car. Also most make a mistake thinking that either the ACD or the AYC work with no relation to each other as it is the opposite.


You can say you know what it does as much as you want, but the things you are saying on here contradict that.

:lol: No the only one here saying things that are not as such in reality is you, showing that you have very little knowledge of what and how the system works.

I didn't say that. I'll cut you some slack as I assume English isn't your first language, but the "\" means "either or".

Wrong, the slush "/" can be used in more than one ways depending on the contextual environment it lies, it also has nothing to do with english being my first language or not, as it is a universal linguistic feature, and yes you did say that.

As I've already said, ACD is an open-diff mid corner so what exactly is it needing throttle for? And yes AYC needs throttle but you do know that the car drives just fine when AYC isn't active, right? You do know that AWD offers pretty good traction on its own and evos are permanent AWD? If you've gone beyond the limits of what AYC can do for you then it doesn't matter much what you do with the throttle.

As I also said previously :lol:, the throttle is not just for the front wheels, where even an open diff has a certain effect when torque is applied to it, but its mainly for the AYC which will do most of the work. If you drive like a granny then of course the car will drive fine even without AYC or ACD. Yes I do not that a well setup AWD car will offer very good traction and driving stability, but this is irrelevant to how or what an AYC/ACD system works or is capable of. Also another irrelevant point, have I anywhere mentioned that the AYC/ACD system that is a magic one that keeps you planted on the road no matter what you do? On the contrary I know exactly where its limits are on my car in conjunction with my suspension setup and tyres used. No it does matter, the throttle is your second steering and keeping the car behaving the way you want aid!


Marios
 

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There is no reason for me to discuss this any further, so to the O.P and to the rest of fellow evo owners, enjoy the effect and impact of the AYC/ACD system in your driving, boost on!









Marios
 

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Jesus built my car
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> A 50/50 AWD car from an a 50/50 AWD can differ greatly as a
> differential is not the only factor to a car behaviour, many other
> aspects of a car come into action

I'm talking in the context of the thread so we're talking factory spec evos, not ones with altered suspension, ARBs etc.

> and yes a 50/50 AWD car can and will either oversteer or understeer

How is it going to oversteer? What are the physics behind that?

> The reason mitsubishi created the AYC/ACD system as these too were
> developed to work together and not independently

AYC was developed first independently of ACD, and some cars have ACD but not AYC.

> AYC is stopping at the best degree possible the tail of the car to
> slide out

Why is the tail going to slide out? You keep saying these things as if they are true and when questioned you give no explanations behind your arguments. When you accelerate through a corner the longitudinal forces on the wheels are roughly the same front and rear, except the weight transfer gives the rears more traction and the fronts less. As well as having less traction than the rear the front tyres have greater lateral forces being applied to them due to the steering angle. As the speed increases and these forces increase, why are the rears going to break traction before the fronts when the fronts have less traction available and more forces acting upon them? On a rear wheel drive car, greater acceleration puts more force on the rears allowing them to overload before the fronts so break traction before the fronts, but on an AWD EVO greater acceleration loads the fronts as well as the rears so the rears are not going to have more load than the fronts. The fronts are always going to have greater forces acting on them mid turn so will always give first....so.....I ask you....again...explain the problem you think AYC is trying to solve, and also explain why giving *more* torque to the outer-rear wheel is going to result in reducing oversteer when oversteer happens when there is too much force being applied to the wheel?

> as for the mid turn comment of yours in which you actually admit that
> an open diff offers no benefit in traction, thus the main aid,
> differential wise, to you to keep the car planted on the road is the
> AYC, but to further enhance traction and to help the AYC, mitsi
> changed that to an LS diff on the MR model

The MR still has ACD so still runs an open centre diff in the same situations surely, as do the RS models (post-ACD ones obviously). I didn't say an open centre diff offers no benefit mid-corner, it does. Your belief that my statement that the diff is open mid corner was somehow a negative shows your general lack of understanding when it comes to diffs and vehicle dynamics. When I said the diff was open that was not a criticism, when your tyres have traction you want an open centre diff mid turn to allow the front and rear wheels to do what they need to do unhindered as they travel different distances and need to travel at different speeds. This is why the pinnacle of Mitsubishi's driving technology gives you exactly that. It is also why that mode is labelled "tarmac"...ie for when you have good traction. Mechanical centre diffs give benefits in some situations and drawbacks in others, the active centre diff of ACD is designed to give you the best of all worlds. Why do you think WRC cars used active diffs? Why do you think they were banned for being too effective?

You are saying that an open centre diff mid turn is bad and that a non-open centre diff gives more traction mid turn so maybe you can explain why that is? In tarmac mode it is assumed you have good traction so the centre diff opens to allow your front and rear tyres to act independently to best get your car around the corner. Whilst great on dry tarmac, if you are on a loose surface or a slippery surface like wet tarmac\snow where there is a chance that low traction *will* make the tyres slide then your open diff has gone from being a strength to a liability as the sliding tyres get the torque and you lose drive. So in gravel and snow modes an amount of locking and limited slip remain (to varying degrees) so that if your tyres do lose traction mid-turn then the tyres that have the traction (probably the rears for the reasons I've explained above) still have power they can use and torque is better distributed in general. Good for slippery conditions, but bad for dry tarmac as the locking in the centre can hinder cornering when traction is good. This is the great thing about electronically controlled diffs...the best circumstances in a range of situations, especially as in tarmac mode the locking can still come back in as you are exiting the bend where a little throttle\understeer is more likely.

You however stated that ACD needs throttle mid corner and I've asked you to explain why and you have not yet answered that question yet you continue to repeat the claim so can you explain the reasons? You have also stated about that a non-open centre diff gives more traction mid corner. I've given a very basic explanation of why I think not above, so could you please respond in kind and give technical explanations and reasons behind what you're saying?

> No the only one here saying things that are not as such in reality is
> you, showing that you have very little knowledge of what and how the
> system works.

I'm backing everything I say up with explanations, all you have is statements you claim are true (despite some being factually inaccurate) and offer no explanation and refuse to answer any technical questions put to you. On the face of things it seems that those are the actions of one who has no real knowledge but have just misinterpreted what others have (sometimes erroneously) said and is regurgitating them as being true without knowing why.
 

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5,985 Posts
> A 50/50 AWD car from an a 50/50 AWD can differ greatly as a
> differential is not the only factor to a car behaviour, many other
> aspects of a car come into action

I'm talking in the context of the thread so we're talking factory spec evos, not ones with altered suspension, ARBs etc.

> and yes a 50/50 AWD car can and will either oversteer or understeer

How is it going to oversteer? What are the physics behind that?

> The reason mitsubishi created the AYC/ACD system as these too were
> developed to work together and not independently

AYC was developed first independently of ACD, and some cars have ACD but not AYC.

> AYC is stopping at the best degree possible the tail of the car to
> slide out

Why is the tail going to slide out? You keep saying these things as if they are true and when questioned you give no explanations behind your arguments. When you accelerate through a corner the longitudinal forces on the wheels are roughly the same front and rear, except the weight transfer gives the rears more traction and the fronts less. As well as having less traction than the rear the front tyres have greater lateral forces being applied to them due to the steering angle. As the speed increases and these forces increase, why are the rears going to break traction before the fronts when the fronts have less traction available and more forces acting upon them? On a rear wheel drive car, greater acceleration puts more force on the rears allowing them to overload before the fronts so break traction before the fronts, but on an AWD EVO greater acceleration loads the fronts as well as the rears so the rears are not going to have more load than the fronts. The fronts are always going to have greater forces acting on them mid turn so will always give first....so.....I ask you....again...explain the problem you think AYC is trying to solve, and also explain why giving *more* torque to the outer-rear wheel is going to result in reducing oversteer when oversteer happens when there is too much force being applied to the wheel?

> as for the mid turn comment of yours in which you actually admit that
> an open diff offers no benefit in traction, thus the main aid,
> differential wise, to you to keep the car planted on the road is the
> AYC, but to further enhance traction and to help the AYC, mitsi
> changed that to an LS diff on the MR model

The MR still has ACD so still runs an open centre diff in the same situations surely, as do the RS models (post-ACD ones obviously). I didn't say an open centre diff offers no benefit mid-corner, it does. Your belief that my statement that the diff is open mid corner was somehow a negative shows your general lack of understanding when it comes to diffs and vehicle dynamics. When I said the diff was open that was not a criticism, when your tyres have traction you want an open centre diff mid turn to allow the front and rear wheels to do what they need to do unhindered as they travel different distances and need to travel at different speeds. This is why the pinnacle of Mitsubishi's driving technology gives you exactly that. It is also why that mode is labelled "tarmac"...ie for when you have good traction. Mechanical centre diffs give benefits in some situations and drawbacks in others, the active centre diff of ACD is designed to give you the best of all worlds. Why do you think WRC cars used active diffs? Why do you think they were banned for being too effective?

You are saying that an open centre diff mid turn is bad and that a non-open centre diff gives more traction mid turn so maybe you can explain why that is? In tarmac mode it is assumed you have good traction so the centre diff opens to allow your front and rear tyres to act independently to best get your car around the corner. Whilst great on dry tarmac, if you are on a loose surface or a slippery surface like wet tarmac\snow where there is a chance that low traction *will* make the tyres slide then your open diff has gone from being a strength to a liability as the sliding tyres get the torque and you lose drive. So in gravel and snow modes an amount of locking and limited slip remain (to varying degrees) so that if your tyres do lose traction mid-turn then the tyres that have the traction (probably the rears for the reasons I've explained above) still have power they can use and torque is better distributed in general. Good for slippery conditions, but bad for dry tarmac as the locking in the centre can hinder cornering when traction is good. This is the great thing about electronically controlled diffs...the best circumstances in a range of situations, especially as in tarmac mode the locking can still come back in as you are exiting the bend where a little throttle\understeer is more likely.

You however stated that ACD needs throttle mid corner and I've asked you to explain why and you have not yet answered that question yet you continue to repeat the claim so can you explain the reasons? You have also stated about that a non-open centre diff gives more traction mid corner. I've given a very basic explanation of why I think not above, so could you please respond in kind and give technical explanations and reasons behind what you're saying?

> No the only one here saying things that are not as such in reality is
> you, showing that you have very little knowledge of what and how the
> system works.

I'm backing everything I say up with explanations, all you have is statements you claim are true (despite some being factually inaccurate) and offer no explanation and refuse to answer any technical questions put to you. On the face of things it seems that those are the actions of one who has no real knowledge but have just misinterpreted what others have (sometimes erroneously) said and is regurgitating them as being true without knowing why.
Your backing nothing up, other than writing things you heard, read or think they are as such, I disagree with most of what you say and I have stated as briefly and as simply as I could my findings and personal opinion based on my personal experience. If you want to find out the limits and the way the ACD/AYC actually works, drive your car hard enough to its limits, if you can do that, to properly understand the effects of the specific system. If you are interested in merely the theory and physics behind the specific system and its supposed application in reality there are plenty of serious scientific articles on the net, I am sure you will find what you are looking for in your own time and pace as there is enough to read, but I assure you what you will read is not as it is supposed to be to a good degree when applied to reality. On the other hand if or since you have it all figured out, then there is nothing for me to say, stick to what you know then and call it a day. I've wasted enough of my time trying to give my insight on things to people that seem to know everything, since you are conveinced that you do, my posts are redundant and not necessary.

I edited this post as an answer to your below post, as I have no more posts, my last one on this thread was the last of the 20 I am allowed, in a genuine effort to post some more of my knowledge on theory and science about driving. Your arguement comparing electricity and driving, which I happen to know both subjects and as it is quite the opposite of what you said through your arguement it made me laugh. With electricity you need to be very strict almost absolute when it comes to theory, with driving theory is enough times not the case. Who you took lessons with or not it is of no importance to me,also anyone can make themselves look good behind a keyboard, and taking track driving lessons does not mean that you can actually do what you have been shown and how. But even if you do know how to perform the driving you say you have been taught, it is irrelevant to my posting as I have never seen you drive and my conclusions are based and are relying exclusively to what you have actually posted on here, posts which show me that you have a lot to learn on driving. Coming back to the matter of science while typing this I changed my mind and I will not post anything on it physics wise, some other time when I have more posts and I feel like it, and if you think that I can't do that lol, well you can believe whatever you want.

From one fellow evo owner to another, enjoy your evo as that is what really matters, and know that, if you do not already do, in driving as with everything else in life the more friction you have with it the more you learn.



Marios
 

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Jesus built my car
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I disagree with most of what you say and I have stated as briefly and as simply as I could my findings and personal opinion based on my personal experience. If you want to find out the limits and the way the ACD/AYC actually works, drive your car hard enough to its limits
I have. The problem with "personal experience" is that it is incredibly subjective which is why, when discussing things like diffs and vehicle dynamics I much prefer to talk science as that is objective and understandable. Everything I have posted above has been confirmed by own personal experiences or else I wouldn't have as much faith in it as I do. I've done driver limit training with Don Palmer, I've done car limit and general performance training with Andy Walsh, I've done general driver training with CATD, I've done high performance driver training with the police, I've done skidpans, I've done "dry" skid pans, I've driven at MIRA's test centre, at Millbrook's, I've done ice rallying.....do you think I've done all that and never driven a car "hard" or "to its limits"? You think that after all the talks and instruction I've had from professional drivers and professional rally drivers that I haven't learned a thing or two about how a car handles? You think you can drive a car fast without understanding the science any more than you can wire a house without understanding electricity? You think I'm just regurgitating some cr*p I've read from "some guy" on a forum when I talk about this stuff? Cos the thing is....the stuff that you're saying on this thread are the kind of things I only ever hear on this forum, I've never heard a professional driver concur with a lot of the stuff I read here. I know where *my* information comes from and I strongly suspect I know where yours does too.

Thinking I have no personal experience you have seized on that in the belief that it will be your "trump card", exempting you from having to back up what you're saying, not knowing that I actually have a fair amount of experience; I've just chosen not to rely on it on this thread as I know it is largely subjective and non-provable (who says I have done any of the things I've said I've done on this thread?), but I don't *have* to rely on it because I can also explain what I'm saying at a technical level so prefer to go down that route instead.

You haven't answered any questions because you can't, and you're obviously not going to so we'll just leave it that. If people want to believe you "because you say so" they are more than welcome to do so.
 
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