helper springs
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its about comprimise i think
ive got helpers allround on my car
ive got helpers allround on my car
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its a case of measuring ,can you get the ride height low enough on the damper with the 200mm you should do ,150 mm is a REALLY short spring im running 275 mm with a 100mm helper on the rear of mine ,ii cant remember whats up front but its not far off the same
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the thing is it depends on how stiff your helper springs are mine are only 4lb there nothing they literilly just hold the spring in the top spring seat ,you can use allsort of stiffer stuff but then your in to duel rate stuff and thats not easy to work out ,but for a race car if thats what you want your not likly to have any wheels off the floor long enough
like i said 150 mm springs VERY low id be suprised youll get any travel out the damper id go with the 200 and adjust yoru ride height to suit
like i said 150 mm springs VERY low id be suprised youll get any travel out the damper id go with the 200 and adjust yoru ride height to suit
thanks, just trying to get my head around what will be best as i have the two options, thats the problem with options.
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The more droop the better.
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Nope, helper springs don't affect droop, the suspension design and stantion extension + anti-roll bar stiffness (if cornering) affect droop.
Use springs long enough, with the ride height you want and the suspension travel you have, to prevent the spring being coilbound before you use all available suspension travel.
If, when using these length springs, the spring comes off the spring platform at full droop, you need helpers.
Didn't I explain this to you on the phone??!! :lol:
yes you did clive, thank you very much, but i keep looking at this from different aspects and now my minds gone:crackup:
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There aren't any other aspects, they are only there for one purpose.
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Helper springs are designed to take up slack, and are mainly use with single perch suspension such as KW.
In a single perch design: KW, Ohlins, etc.
Your car sit on the springs, and you adjust the springs platform to adjust the ride height.
So at the lowest setting of the main springs (when there is 0 pre-load), if that isn't low enough then to go lower will mean the springs will be loose.
In order to take up this gap, helper springs are design to fill the gap.
As with all single perch design, the lower you go, the less compression travel you have, and the more likely you will hit your bump stop.
Dual perch design: MeisterR ZetaCRD, Ohlins DFV, etc.
As the suspension are design to sit at 0mm pre-load, and the ride height are adjusted via the lower bracket (by changing the length of the damper), helper springs are not needed.
Some dual perch coilovers I see with helper springs which I feel odd, as it mean you are taking compression travel and throwing it out the window.
The ONLY time a dual perch coilovers need helper springs is when your springs are so stiff that you do not have enough droop travel, then you bring a helper springs in to give you more droop.
That is typical of race suspension as they are lighten and have very high springs rate.
So you need the helper springs to give you the droop travel you need.
That is why some coilovers have helper springs, and some don't.
But just throwing helper springs in (as I see in some coilovers brand) do not make a suspension better... if anything it often makes it perform worst.
P.S. forgot to add... rally car is a different kettle of fish as they have extremely long damper stroke travel and need the helper springs to take up some of those travel.
But that is outside the scope of usage for most users on here.
Jerrick
In a single perch design: KW, Ohlins, etc.
Your car sit on the springs, and you adjust the springs platform to adjust the ride height.
So at the lowest setting of the main springs (when there is 0 pre-load), if that isn't low enough then to go lower will mean the springs will be loose.
In order to take up this gap, helper springs are design to fill the gap.
As with all single perch design, the lower you go, the less compression travel you have, and the more likely you will hit your bump stop.
Dual perch design: MeisterR ZetaCRD, Ohlins DFV, etc.
As the suspension are design to sit at 0mm pre-load, and the ride height are adjusted via the lower bracket (by changing the length of the damper), helper springs are not needed.
Some dual perch coilovers I see with helper springs which I feel odd, as it mean you are taking compression travel and throwing it out the window.
The ONLY time a dual perch coilovers need helper springs is when your springs are so stiff that you do not have enough droop travel, then you bring a helper springs in to give you more droop.
That is typical of race suspension as they are lighten and have very high springs rate.
So you need the helper springs to give you the droop travel you need.
That is why some coilovers have helper springs, and some don't.
But just throwing helper springs in (as I see in some coilovers brand) do not make a suspension better... if anything it often makes it perform worst.
P.S. forgot to add... rally car is a different kettle of fish as they have extremely long damper stroke travel and need the helper springs to take up some of those travel.
But that is outside the scope of usage for most users on here.
Jerrick
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When one escapes from your pocket sprung mattress
Or more likely terminology used in PE Trumps' new found country :naughty:
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