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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had a set of cross drilled and grooved discs fitted with Mintex pads and I now wish that I had not done this
as they don't feel that good and they squeal so badly that I got pulled up by the local police ! - Light braking or hard braking it makes no difference they just squeal like hell. They do stop the car but all the 'feel' that the originals had is gone.

Because the guy that runs the company that fitted them is almost impossible to get to talk to and the fact that I need my car on the road, I have today taken the pads out to have a look at what is going on. About a week ago I phoned them and booked the car back in with them for inspection but they cannot do this until October 24th !

The first thing I have found is that the anti - squeel shims that I paid £30 for are nothing more than a bit of heat prove mintex fabric material that has been badly cut to shape (looks like it should go between 2 flat surfaces - ie.. between a shim and the back of the pad) - It has been put directly between the pad and the caliper pistons and has partly disintegrated ! - after just 500 miles. - Doesn't look right to me ??

The fabric stuff has worn through and is not across the whole contact area between the caliper piston and the brake pad - To me it looks like a complete 'bodge it' type set up, that might just last a couple hundred miles.

Any independent info that someone can give that knows about this type of set up would be very appreciated.

I can't put the £30 fabric bits back in so I am going to try the Brembo shims on the Mintex pads for the time being
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Which company/garage did the job and wot brand r the disc's.

Sounds like a bit of legal action mite wake the guy up , if u r in the AA or RAC they cud do an inspection and report.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ex Karter

You could have put the OEM anti squeal pads back, they work fine.

I heard from a lot of people that the Mintex pads squeal like hell. And appearently they are not that good either.

For better braking without squealing and without spending thousands of pounds, I would suggest you use the same brake set up as MAXI and myself: Grooved and cross drilled CTF discs (the Italian Project Mu importer, Centro Technica Freni or sthg) with separate aluminium bell that will keep the discs from warping, or at least from warping easily. Add BT Pagid RS14 pads to this and you will have brakes that are better than OEM when cold, and are unbelievably good when hot. MAXI and myself have used the brakes quite hard several times in small downhill roads (braking every 4 or 5 seconds for 9 kms) and although they got really hot and red, fading occurs a lot later than with OEM discs. We also changed the fluid because it started boiling, using Tarox 330 C liquid now. It has silicone in it to prevent bubble formation inside the brake hoses. I would also recommend braided brake hoses to get a constant pedal feel (the whole circuit will then be made of hard material). Note that the feel is not as good if you have ABS (I has an RS2 b4, now TME).
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If you want an intermediate solution then there is the way of uprating discs, pads etc. But if you want to finally get rid of the braking problems there are two proven solution, either AP or Movit.
I had almost the same combo as Claudius but I would never recommend using the RS14 pad. It bites like a bulldog but modulation is not good. On my car I always locked the wheels too easily and especially in the rain constant locking. And it eats the discs. Especially when used outside their temperature window.
People often think hard bite means good brakes.
To get the discs glowing red means the whole brake system gets far too hot. But I don't want to go again into this debate.
Best thing is to sort out the thing with your garage and then, if you're not happy with the standard brakes, upgrade them. To find out how surf through the brake section.

One word, after trying all sorts of different pads, discs, reskims, and the work involved (and especially frustration) I had better gone the full monty from the begining on.

Cheers

Mike

PS: As Claudius said, put the OEM antisqueal shims on the back of the Mintex pads, and try to round off the edges of the pad to a 45degree angle. If that doesn't help at all, warm up your brakes and accelerate hard in second gear then brake hard, repeat that 8-10 times, this always helped when I used the Mintex F4R pad. Only perform that without traffic but that's self explaining!
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
True, the brake system gets too hot. I suppose it is not totally up to the job for hard use. Every brake system I have seen so far gets like that though, the Evo system, the OEM M3 3,2l one and the Tarox 6 pot. I havent seen the Movit or Aps.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
there comes a time every system get red discs even ap 6 pots or movit


just put youre car in my hands :)

regards

andre
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yup, I cooked and destroy my AP discs (with 6 pots) - which is why I needed the brake ducts. Anything is possible on a track :D

I am sure the Movit discs are cookable too!
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am wondering how hard Scoobymike drives his car. Saying the Movit brakes dont even fade. Appearently they do not reach high enough temp. Ever?? Hmmm...
He mentioned mountain roads though...
I'm wondering...
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Claudius, it could be that they are really good brakes! I guess n.ring must hammer his though - sounds like he goes to the ring every week!

Having seen porsches with the same brakes driven hard, they haven't faded. My AP's never fade either.

Don't suppose Mike is driving fast at all at the moment with his bad back! Get well soon Scoobymike!
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Side point - Scooby mike, isn't it time you changed your name?!?!? EvoMike perhaps, or even MovitMike!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Claudius

Just come over or let's meet at the Ring. Then we can sort that out with ease. There's a difference between abusing and actually driving a carhttp://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/tonguewink1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >! Maybe I have to get the car back to standard otherwise you'd have an excuse. No comments that I'm only on my third set of tyres this season:D (12'000km)

Now seriously. Even with the mild sport spec pads no fade downhill (I use my own brake ducts aswell). Mind I accelerate between the corners easily till 150-160 and then brake down to 50-60 several times in a row (in km/h!). I often go far over 200 and then braking down for a corner. With this setup you don't need to have this ultra high friction pads for good performance. The good thing is you get a wide range of different pads for these callipers, especially every pagid compound can be fitted. The problem are now the rear brakes, the discs begin to look quite used. In spring I'll fit the rear movit kit aswell (N.Ring has that already). N.Ring drives together with race drivers and he's a Ring specialist. No-one on this board will touch him on the Ring.

Tony

back's recovering, thanks for asking. Couldn't resist to drive my car though on Friday/Saterday. Just had to get out of it every 20 minutes to do some muscle scretching. You know best how it is as a car nutter!Tomorrow I have to go in the army, bloody Swiss duty! 3 weeks but I hope they release me this time because of my back.

You seem to have recovered pretty well. Hope to see and your beast next year at the Ring for a nice international EVO meet. Your car should be featured on myevo.com. Antonio would be more than pleased to put some pictures and your spec and process of building your car on his website, I'm sure. He's a real EVO freak and a top bloke. If you fancy that let me know!

Unfortunately I'm not paid by Movit otherwise changing my nickname could be taken into consideration. Check out the new topic I'll start in the General Section;)!

Cheers

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Evo 6 brakes! Thanks and another question

Dear All,

Thanks for your help on this isssue, I have taken the matter up with the supplier but at present no response.

My 6 is a standard car except for some Eibach springs fitted 560 miles ago (these give a big improvement in balance) the car is on Bridgestone Pol. 03's - which should not give the the brakes a big problem ! - i don't think these tyres are any better than the original 01's except in the rain.

I have spent so much of my adult life Kart racing, best years were 1992 and 1993 where I won a British Open Championship '0 Plate' and several rounds of the Superone National Championship finishing 2nd in the series both years (stopped about 18 months ago - got scared suddenly at 39 ! far too old and could not keep my weight near enough to 70kg, so hence 'ExKarter nickname' - it was the only thing I could think of) - Sorry this is getting a bit boring ! - So in the search of something to do I went to Castle Combe earlier this year in my bog standard Evo 6 running on original Bidge Pol. 01's and did 3 x 6 lap sessions and since then I have done a session at Bedford Autodrome (3.6 mile track) and a day at Bentwaters near Ipswich - ie.. not that much track running but thanks to years of karting my lap times seem to be on it.

I have never had brake fade, not even a bit, not even on the standard pads on a boiling hot day. I can't see that a standard car with standard road tyres can generate a brake problem - except warped discs of course, which I must admit I may of caused myself on the standard dics by not staying out and bringing the temperature down. These new discs though have been treated 100% properly but even so they have developed high speed brake judder all on their own within 500 miles of use.

Question ?
So many people on this web site seem to have brake disc problems - couldn't be something else causing it could it ? like
wheel bearing adjustment or wheel alignment/tow setting. The reason I ask this is that when my car was new it had some wheel judder at high speed braking - it was worse in the dry than in the wet. When the car went in for it's 4500 mile service I had the 4 wheel alignment adjusted and from then on there was no sign of the judder at all - not ever - not even after the Castle Combe track day. The judder returned even worse after I heard any almighty clonk under the car at Bedford Autodrome (at around 11000 miles) this caused me to pull straignt in to the pits and possibly to warp the discs - next time out the judder was there. The garage diagnosed warped discs and fitted these new ones with the F4R mintex pads and bits of fabric stuff as shims that I have already mentioned. - Since then the same problem is back, within just 500 miles, I am now wondering if there are other possibilities. Ie.. could it be that slight play in the wheel bearings or wrong tow in/out settings could exagerate the slightest problem with the discs to the extent that you would feel it through the steering. When I have driven any car before with warped discs it shows significantly through the brake pedal. On the original discs and these new discs I cannot feel a problem on the pedal - although the garage guy said that he could feel it on the original pads so hence his diagnosis. (when these current discs and pads were fitted the 4 wheel alignment was redone at the same time but to different settings than at the 4500 mile service) - Any ideas ??? -

If anyone is doing a track day in this part of the country, please let me know - there was a couple of Evo 6's and Scoobys at Benwaters (Suffolk) last time but I don't know who they were.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What part of the country is that?

Droid and I are doing Donnington on the 31st/10th - is that near you (leicester way)?
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am in Essex but anywhere South East - Suffolk, Kent, Herts, South Lincs, M25 zone. That sort of area.

Donnington is somewhere I would like to try if I've got my brakes sorted - who are you booked through ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Pagid pads are pretty damn good, there are a selection of types that cover everything from maximum attack to fast road, they don't squeal as much as the Mintex pads either - which goes away, just about, once you have taken the pads through a good temp cycle.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ExKarter,
If you are running Mintex 1155 compound, these will quieten down as you do more miles but they will never be completely silent.
That is due to the high metallic content of the pad compound. They shouldnt be used on the road because of the squeal, but I use them because they work well and don't fade much.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
ExKarter, www.bookatrack.com

31/10 is an open pit day. Good tuition will be available.

Will have my beast there :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I also am running Mintex pads (cut down 1144's) with standard discs at present and had the car doing a good impression of a distressed pig around town for some time after they were fitted. I found that a decent workout on two trackdays did the trick and they hardly make a noise now even when cold. It's also a fun way to solve the problem :)

Steve.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Be careful if you want to buy ap stuff!
I saw Tommi Makinen with 8 pot ap brakes and the discs were red!
There must be a problem with them if they become so hot:D!

It depends were and how you drive if the brakes become red or not.
Off course a better brake system will be harder to warm, but if you drive in downill at the limit they can become red.

About the rs14 brake pads that's what they are using in tarmac gr.n evo, and I think they are really good, but not really progressive.
You can prefer something else depending on driving style.
The blue pagid are more progressive they use them in gravel rally but they are good for fast road too.
 
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