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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi there

there is a lot of threads of people recommending 272/264 cams on the evo engine. but has anyone actually tried 272/272 and did not like them on a standard turbo?
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I have a friend in Singapore who has set of 272s on his Makinen. I have 272/264 on mine here. Mine has more bite below 3500 rpm and he had to get headwork done to improve his low-end response.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
HKS EUROPE 272 / 272 WAS BEST FOR THE EVO 6 i have a RC car and that runs 272 and there own cam on exhaust has any one got dyno results for the 272 / 272 running 1.7 bar boost ??????
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
HKS only recommend using matched pairs of cams! So they would say run 272i 272e. I believe that is what Blade is running at the moment. Still don't know how 272i 264e became a standard over here but by all accounts it does run very well if the cam timing is right.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
jspeed
so i take it you are based in the uk though. have you ever driven your friend's car?.


simon
have you ever driven a car with 272/264 what do you think of the difference they made. i mean it is possible that 272/264 is the best compromise to go for. what i am trying to avoid is having to upgrade later, just wanting to know if anyone has actually tried both or is it just based on some tuners recommedations. at the end of the day HKS seem to have produced better results than RC, and ralliart by the sound of things. does not really inspire much confidence in their knowledge.


sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes I have and I can tell you that his car is not as punchy low down as mine, even though he had headwork and porting, but that could be due to the weather -- Singapore is friggin' HOT! But in similar conditions I expect mine to still be punchier. In the end it all depends on what you want to do with your car, if you want to run standard turbo/HKS gt2835 or 20g, I suggest the 264/272. If you're looking at the 3037 or 25g with a 2.2l stroker kit, then I guess 272s would be better suited...
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
By the way, HKS designs and makes parts but none of the parts they use on their race cars are actually for sale. Ralliart and RC are just tuners who experiment with different parts, parts which they have tried and feel they can use to bring the best out of your car. Give them a set of HKS products and they may not be able to bring out the same performance as they do if they use a variety of other brands.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
thanks jspeed for your input that is exactly what i was looking for :D

so are you saying 272in/264ex is the way to go then did you mean 264in/272ex?

have you dyno'd you car and did you feel the difference when the cams went in.


sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I can't remember if its 272/264 which way round but I think it should be 264 ex, have to check on that. And yes, the cams definitely did make quite a difference. The mid-range pull is stronger and it doesn't seem to die down even at 7000rpm.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
All things being equal, just fitting in the cams would shift your powerband upwards, and thus give more lag low down. But I had my car tuned with an Apexi A-FC with the cams so my fueling was more aggressive. So I did not get any lag at all ... in fact, it felt more responsive. This is perfect for darting around the streets and also have the power there at high revs for the straight sprints. I don't think the tuners here use 272/272 because they can't compensate for the low-end torque with such a set-up. But for drag-racing it doesn't matter so in the end it depends on what you want. Hope this helps ...
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
A bit of 4G63 Eclipse/DSM advice on Cams from our friends across the pond.


and amp;gt; and amp;gt; HKS 264 intake/264 exhaust |EQU| little improvement, not
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; worth the money. A little more boost is better and
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; cheaper.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| Almost stock, hardly can tell you have cams
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; in.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; HKS 264 intake/272 exhaust |EQU| lumpity lumpity varoom,
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; lumpity lumpity varoom, (VPC) thingy. Sounds like
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; the London Philharmonic orchestra is controlling the
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; idle.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| Consistent pattern, lumpity lumpity varoom
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; HKS 272 intake/ 272 exhaust |EQU| Oh my god, I have a
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; throttle body shaft leak.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| If you gripe about throttle body shaft leak
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; and think that is bad, wait till you get a hold of
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; these combo.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; HKS 272 intake/ 264 exhaust |EQU| why? don't know,
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; people ran these setup before. Do they like it?
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Don't know.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| Don't know, don't have that kind of money to
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; try one.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Web 546/547 |EQU| Cheaper than HKS, it works. Make your
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; 4 banger sounds like a V-8.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| Sounds badd ass, no consistent rythyms in
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; idle fluctuations. In other words it idles all over
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; the place.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Web 452/228 |EQU| Hmm, you have to pump the gas pedal
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; while starting the car. Kinda like your grandaddy
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; ole Ford F-350 ranger pickup. Well it not that bad.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; If you have VPC, haha, stay far away, not enough
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; vacumm for the
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; car to idle.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| blat blat blat blop blat blop blat, fart arf
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; arf bow wow, blat. Stand alone recommended but not
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; neccesary.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Web 453/228 |EQU| Oh my effing god, what did I got
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; myself in to. I have stock ecu and afc, I go
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; through two batteries trying to start the car. It
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; make my dsm like a honda. V-TEC kick in at 5,000 k
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; rpm.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| For $450.00 bucks. You let me know how it
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; idles.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Crower 220/212 |EQU| Don't do ****, actually lost power
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; compare to stock.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| You pay how much for what cams again?
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Crower 235/232 |EQU| You better off with stock cams,
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; lost power on high end again.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| See Crower grind 220/212
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Crower 242/240 |EQU| Hmm now we're getting somewhere
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; now, almost comparable to HKS 264 combo.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| If you ever heard a car with a bad throttle
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; body shaft leak, you know what I'm talking about.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Crower 242/245 |EQU| hmm supposedly a copy of HKS
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; 264/272. Still not worth the money. They should
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; stick to making rods not cams.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Idles |EQU| Similar to HKS 264/272 combo.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Conclusion? Remember HKS set the standard. Everyone
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; including Web's copy their grinds and lift. But
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; everyone have their idea's on what is good. All the
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; og's drag racer that run low number have HKS in
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; their car.
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Crower and Webs get their billet from the same
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; company. Flat chest cams only found in American
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; made cams. Anyone have a set of HKS that cams that
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; is flat chested? For more info... check them out at
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; ..
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; http://www.crower.com/mitsu.shtml and amp;lt;http://www.crower.com/mitsu.shtml and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newproducts.htm
and amp;gt; and amp;lt;http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newproducts.htm and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; http://www.roadraceengineering.com/webcaminfo.htm
and amp;gt; and amp;lt;http://www.roadraceengineering.com/webcaminfo.htm and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclengine.htm
and amp;gt; and amp;lt;http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclengine.htm and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Hope that helps..
and amp;gt; and amp;gt;
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Ty
and amp;gt; and amp;gt; Road Race Engineering
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
light speed

that actually did not help much :( basically it suggests that the hks cams are very lumpy in 272/272 which what i wanted to go for intially. and the 264/264 is not worth the money. the 264/272 is not what i was interested in i am looking for the 272/264?.

so which combo will be better suited or an evo do you think 264/272 or 272/264?


sam
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sam

I think everybody I have spoken to seems to agree that with the standard turbo, 272i 264e seems to be the way to go. My reference points would be RC, Custard, PE and Ralliart. The key seems to be the cam timing, get it right and tickover is smooth, power is impressive. I think that there are 2 issues facing you. I suspect that the 272i 272e settup might be good but there hasn't been the work done on cam timing. Your other issue is that if you are going for a larger turbo, then all this might not apply :(
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have got the RC camsn my VI and that gives a lumpy tickover. Nothing to worry about, but it aint smooth by any counts. The impressive part is how responsive it is at lower revs compared to before and still keeps going past 7000rpm strongly.
I dont' know if there are any better solutions but this one certainly works a treat.

Steve
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
having fiddled around with my cam timing (- thanks custord for good advice!)
i am finding that if you overlap them more that the idle is worse, bottom end is better and top end is worse
as you decrease the overlap, idle gets better, the bottom end gets worse and the top end gets better!

using the datalogs to find the ideal split timing, then will advance or retard both cams till perfect!

different from an na motor, presumably because of over scavanging of the inlet charge ie blowing straight out the exhaust with too much overlap

andrew
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
neither!

ralliart nz ones, cost less than $nz600 ( and amp;lt;200 pounds) for the pair made by a cam grinder in auckland...have more duration than the standard ones cos it idles worse when set to the factory cam timing, said to lie somewhere between a 264 and a 272

also got some adjustable wheels for $nz220 (exchange, they modify the exitsting ones)

so far tried 105/105 hopeless much adjusting of fuel and timing to stabalise the idle, picked up power 2000-3000, same 3000-4000, 4000|PLS| steadily down hill from there

tried 110/110 (factory) picked up a bit everywhere, noticeably faster 6500|PLS| (so probably up 10hp or something) idle better easy to stabailise
fastest configuration the car has been in yet

started to try 114/114, idle close to factory but forgot to put the cover back on (as a bit of a party had started up and i got distracted) and it ate the ps hose
initial run felt less downlow more up top but not logged yet

will carry on testing this weekend, once i find the optimal split timing then will try advancing or retarding both cams

andrew
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Has anyone tried just playing with the timing of the standard cams i.e. retarding the timing a bit and were there any improvements?

Andy

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack Sam but it is still a cammy question
 
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