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Discussion Starter #1
My E5 is getting lowered on Eibachs and the geometry will be needing adjusted. I would be greatfull if you guys could suggest a starting point for a setup that would give neutral handling. The car is soon to be fitted with:

* Eibach springs
* 18 wheels with PZero Assymetricos's
* 3 point front strut brace.

Thanks in advance,
....Brian
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Apart from mines a VI and I've only got 17 wheels, mine handles very neutrally and you can induce oversteer with a little aggression.
Front toe in 1mm
Rear toe in 1mm
front neg -2
rear neg -1.5
couldn't get the neggy any less than that because of the spirngs lowering the car, but tyre wear on the inner rim isn't apparent so I'm very pleased.
Steve
 

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OK chaps Ive just fitted the Eibach springs, 18" and new tyres and have had my car's geometry reset. I have gone for the following initial settings:

Front toe-in 0mm (standard Mitsi spec)
Front camber -2 (Eibachs fitted)
Rear toe-in 1mm (standard Mitsi spec is 3mm)
Rear camber -1 (standard Mitsi spec)

As suggested on this forum I have upped the tyre pressure of my PZero Assimetrico's to 2.4 bar front, 2.1 bar rear to counter the softer sidewalls.

My findings:

The car just doesn't feel planted as it did before, the turn-in isn't too bad but the front end has definately lost some bite. It may just be the new tyres haven't scrubbed up yet but the car feels like its going to slide off the road whenever I enter a fast corner (understeer!) :mad:

Questions:

Should I adjust the settings now or wait till the tyres scrub up a bit more ?
What settings should I alter first to improve the handling

Your help is greatly appreciated !
 

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I have been working a lot on my suspension lately, and when I finish my research I'll post my findings (if anyone has interest to read them), but I'll start today with some notes. Unfortunately, as I have posted many times before, I don't have the chance to drive and work on my car on a daily basis, as my TME stays in Spain but I'm working in Zurich (anyone has a good job to offer me back in Spain? ;))

As I fitted a 3-way Proflex some things will not apply to standard shocks.

The first thing that should be noted is that it's important to have the right geometry and ride heights FIRST, and then work on minor adjustments (like tyre pressures). But if the geometry is flawed, it does not make much sense to waste time correcting the problem with other settings.

FRONT CAMBER: Among the things that I have tried are different camber settings, and contrary to the opinion of many people at the MLR, excessive front negative camber causes understeering under acceleration. Why is that? Very simple: under acceleration (mainly on mid and slow corners) the weight shifts towards the back, so the front tires do not get enough weight, and given the smaller contact patch due to excessive negative camber the grip at the front will be reduced inducing understeering. I have partially solved the problem increasing low-speed bump setting in the rear shocks, but I plan to reduce negative camber. I tried -3°, and currently ride -2.5°, but I'm planning to reduce even further to -1.5° or -2°.

Note for Blade: I know you run higher negative camber and you are happy with it, but don't forget you use the car exclusively on the track, where the needs are different than on the road or rally stages. Speed is much more constant on a track, and the lines are smoother. On an open road you normally keep a safety margin and often reduce speed more than necessary, having to accelerate more violently at the exit of the corners.

RIDE HEIGHTS: I lowered my TME 10mm all-around and I am not too happy (except on smooth tarmac), as I am running out of travel in sharp downhill corners. I may go back to standard height settings, but it would be interesting to try the GrN homologated ride heights (check a recent post), which are even higher than the standard ones. People who set-up Evo rally cars say the car rides best with these settings.
 

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Rallyman, Where in Spain is your car? I live in Spain, if you want I can take care of your car :D .

I was thinking in fitting a proflex shocks, but they are too expensive, so i´m going to fit Eibach springs with standard shocks. does it work or is it only aesthetic theme?????

My car EVO V RS

Thanks
 

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Rallyman said:
I have been working a lot on my suspension lately, and when I finish my research I'll post my findings (if anyone has interest to read them)
I am interested in your findings!

Are you saying my geometry is flawed, ride height too low, or running too much negative camber etc etc. You will see from my initial settings that I tried to put them back to roughly Mitsi spec as a starting point. This was after a lengthy search on this forum. I collated as many settings as possible and went for something in the middle. Are your settings not:

Front
Camber = -2.5º
Toe-in = 1 mm
Rear
Camber = -1º
Toe-in = 0 mm

I may put my old 17's back on and play with the suspension settings first before readjusting for the 18's.

Cheers,
..Brian
 

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brian

i have tried a lot of different settings and i did not like anything more than 1mm toe in at the back so 1mmtoe in or even 0 at the back is good.

the front
i have tried 1 and 2 and 3mm toe in 2 was the best for me really.


as for camber
it depends, if you are runing a lot of track days or not. i am runing with 1.5 degrees -ve camber at the front and 1-ve at teh back. i found 3 -ve best for track days but the car felt really light on the straights and long sweeping bends.

every thing is a compromise.



you need more toe in at the front than the back. 2front/0 rear is a good option.

the more camber you use front and rear the better the car is around corners ( to a certain degree) look at all the race cars! they run 4-5degrees camber front and rear. the problem with that is stabilit on the straights and int he wet. basically less contact in those situations.
 

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Evowilly,
Creo que Rafa me ha hablado de tí alguna vez. Mi coche está en Madrid (pero no te voy a decir dónde! jeje).
Lowering the car did not work for me. I did not go through the long process of studying the geometry of suspension and its theoretical interaction with the steering, but people who have done the job told me it's best to ride Gr.N heights. My study so far has been purely practical, and I have not finished yet.

Spanbody,
I'm not qualified to say anyone's settings are wrong. If they work for your driving style then it's fine. What I said is that I did not get any benefits by lowering the car, and that excessive negative camber at the front induces understeering (for the reason explained in my post). I believe you should not go beyong -2° at the front. -1° at the back should be OK.

Sam,
As I mentioned in my post, you will benefit of big negative camber settings on a track, but on the road (even under very hard driving in rally stages) this setting will bring you some problems (why wouldn't you want to have as much patch of tire on the road as possible?). I don't think Evo rally cars ride much negative camber (in fact I know one that rides -1.5° at the front)


I did not mention anything about toe. I run 1mm toe-in at the front and have tried 0 and 1mm toe-in at the rear. To tell the truth there is not a big difference. I liked the way you can play with the rear under braking with no toe-in, but the car becomes a bit more 'nervous' on hard braking at high speed.

In general, we should not forget we are driving 4WD drivers, so we should tend not to have too much divergence of settings between front and rear, and aim at having a 'squarish' car.
 

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Spanpody

Fitted PZeros to my VI about 600 miles ago, like you I found that for the first 3-400 miles the front end washed out much earlier than with the well worn S01s I had on before.

600 miles in and having upped the pressures (same as you are running) the front end bite is far better.

Just fitted CTF discs so a full test of brakes and tyres will have to wait for a week or so.

From what I'm seeing the PZeros do appear to improve with use, as expected - but like you it took longer than I was expecting.

Another aspect is that I'm running 2.5 neg at the front and still taking the outside edges off the front tyres, so am loathed to reduce the camber - for the time being anyway.
 

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Rallyman, let me think....Rafa??? I am not sure who do you mean, ca you give me more clues, please???

If you tell me where is your car I promiss not to drive it hard :D.

Your advice is to fit a good shock system, isn´t it? Where do you buy oyur proflex kit?

I was thinking in buying a proflex kit but they have been used in a rallye, so I think it´s not woth it.

Regards.
 

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Evowilly,
I was referring to Rafa del Rio. Regarding the Proflex suspension, I bought it because I found a good deal on a used set. It all comes down to price, how deep your pockets are and how much you are looking to spend. You don't have to go to Proflex or Ohlins to improve your suspension. There are other options that are more affordable (Scoobymike is fitting a KW set these days, and as soon as it's ready he'll take me for a ride so there will be feedback soon). It's not a big problem if the Proflex has been used in a rallye (or even a few of them) because these shocks are fully rebuildable.
By the way, if you live in Madrid and want to fit PZero Assimetrico, let me know. I know a place where they fit them for less than €200 each.

Slowboy,
I went through the same process with my P Zero Asimmetricos: at first grip was not that great, and they squealed a lot. Things are much better after a few hundred kilometers. Regarding the sidewalls, while being fitted I compared them with the Bridgestones noticing they flexed much easier, so I tried to run slightly higher pressures and as it worked well, I recommended it at the MLR.
I'm very interested in your feedback about CTF, as I am thinking about ordering a set.
 

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Thanks for taking the time to reply Sam, Slowboy, Rallyman much appreciated!

Looks like I'll put some toe-in into the fronts and I also plan to reduce the front camber back to -1.5

Sam / Slowboy

You guys coming along to the SIDC trackday at Knockhill on the 20th ? I will be going along to spectate. See the "Regional" section.

Cheers,
....Brian
 

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Rafael is a very nice and friendly person. I hope you have only say good things about me :D .

DO an Evo VI proflex kit fit in an EVO V?


Bye
 

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As Rallyman said I'm about to install my new coilover suspension. I set my ride height to standard (TME ride height, 1cm lower than other VIs), alignement will be done tomorrow with the following settings:
Front: 2 deg neg. camber
1mm toe-in total
Rear: 1 deg. neg camber
1mm toe-in total

Fitted uprated top mounts and cusco 4 point lower braces in the same process.

Hope Rallyman and myself have time on Saturday for some test drive.
Will keep you uptodate if it's from interest to you.

Cheers

Mike
 

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Evowilly,

Yes, I believe there is no problem at all. As far as I know EvoV and EvoVI shocks are interchangeable. Maybe someone at this forum knows better.

If you are going to buy a used set make sure they are in good condition. They are fully rebuildable, but not for free. In terms of cost, a top specialist in Spain will charge around €600 for a full rebuild of 4 shocks.

It would also be interesting if you don't want to spend too much money in a rebuild, to take them to a suspension specialist who can put them through a machine and verify that they are working properly.

Make sure teh shocks come with the appropiate spring rates, as people who use them for racing normally fit stiffer springs than you would need for road use. Cost is €300 for a set of 4 Eibach Racing springs.


Let me know if you need more information.

Regards.
 

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Hi Rich

it's a German product, called KW competition. Ride height, rebound and compression fully adjustable. It's a dualtube damper not monotube. But for me as a mere mortal it should be more than adequate. It's also fully rebuildable. N.Ring has used it now for more than a year on the Ring, he's very happy with it, also service is very good.
KW is very popular here in continental Europe, good value for money. They also do pure racing suspension with monotube dampers and separate canisters.
www.kw-gewindefahrwerke.de/

You can find it under competition and it's "variante 3". Tonight I'll have my first go with it, can't wait.

Cheers

Mike
 

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Advice then please, for ,
Roller top mounts , upper and 5 point lower braces.
Rear strut brace
17 inch wheels

as i am about to fit Ralliart gas fully adjustable kit.
Will be low, as i hate the std hieght, but i want good planted straight line (strut braces help here anyway), but go-kart type turn in,.....without the pendulum effect after the turn in.......got me ????

starting point figures anyone ??
thanks
 

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a simple question - honest!
im having new tyres fitted, and want to get my tyre supplier to check the geometary/tracking is correct.

Firstly, is this something that most tyre suppliers/fitters can do on EVO VI's or is it too 'specialist'?

Secondly, are they likely to have the settings on their standard info sheets/boards?

Thirdly, if not, can you tell me the standard Evo VI settings - its on standard suspension , wheels, etc, and im putting SO3's on it....

Thanks very much!
 
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