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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can anyone tell me what the benefits would be of fitting the GEMS engine management to my EVO6.

I currently have the following mods.

HKS Super Drager
Magnex Down Pipe
Magnex De-Cat
Ralliart Intercooler Pipeing Kit
Blitz BOV
Ralliart Sports ECU
HKS Lowering Springs
ARP Bolts
HKS Racing Induction Kit
HKS Iridium Spark Plugs
Ralliart Brake Master Cylinder Stopper

I will also be fitting the AP organic clutch after the Santa Pod meet.

Should I be going down another route rather than the GEMS.

I like the idea of flames with anti-lag and possible launch control.

What would be the expected increase in power.

Could I put the standard ECU back in the car to use with the GEMS or

should it be run with the Ralliart Sports Ecu. It would be nice to sell the

Ralliart Sports ECU to recover some of the costs of the GEMS item.

One of the reasons for looking at this route is that I dont like the idea

of having boost controllers that can be played with.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I do not understand

all the technical stuff regarding engine management, cams, vener pulleys etc

that I keep reading. I just like driving the EVO and trying to get more bhp.

Many Thanks

Skeletor
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Fitting a GEMS engine management unit would be very beneficial to your car's power output.

Yes of course you will be able to sell your Sports ECU. You might not even have to use the OEM ECU. But often the tuner likes to retain the OEM ECU to do the cold idle or so. Call Ralliart and ask them.

The power and torque output of your car entirely depends on what boost ignition timing fuel settings etc you program into it. I think you will find Ralliart are not willing (or at least not eager) to run this ECU in your car unless you change pistons and connecting rods which they sell for quite a high price (over GBP 1000 |PLS| 150 for pistons and rings and GBP 1000 for the rods). The setup they have is a rallye based one with lots of mid range torque and not a huge power output, around 340 bhp).

As far as the boost control on the Gems is concerned, they say on their site that it is controlled using a fast response valve , whatever that may mean. Does anybody on here know what that means?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Katsuo Kobayashi

Does this mean that it's not advisable to install the GEMS unless engine internals are upgraded.

Skeletor
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
No, not exactly.

It means that you will be able to run any boost your turbo can deliver. However, with OEM internals, it might not be the best idea to run 1.7 bars of boost ;). You can easily run 1.3 bars or even 1.4, but the internals dont like much more. In fact, the problem stems from the mid range: when you suddenly go from not much at 3.000 rpms to big overboost at 3.800 - 4.000, a lot of stress is put on the pistons and thus the connecting rods. With 1.6 bars boost at 4.000 rpms, you get at least 30% more torque than with the standard set up.

If you buy forged internals, you are on the safe side. If you dont, you are not. But you can get the same power output with both.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Skeletor, there is an advert in Motorsport News for Steve Simpson Motorsport for a GEMS ecu with full installation and setup from £1395.

Might be worth a call.

They can at least answer any questions you may have.

07836 635001
http://www.townendgarage.co.uk
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I did see a thread on this site stating that the installation was £1200 all in.

It now appears to be £1400.

How much did you pay Jerry and how much are you paying Blade.

Cheers

Skeletor
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Skeletor

Steve Simpson is THE MAN. He charges £1395. I think you will find that any talk of £1200 was wishful thinking ;)

The big issue that you have to face is how far you are willing to take your engine on standard internals.I believe the issue is not about the bhp but more about the boost, although the 2 are normally linked. However, if you can get higher power without boost over about 1.5, great.

Many of the people running Gems have strengthened internals and run boost at 1.7 bar peaking over 2. While some run similar levels on standard internals, only you can decide if that is a risk you are prepared to take. Those who haven't blown an engine will tell you its OK, others will say you must change! I don't know the answer. It might be safe but I personally would rather spend the money on upgrading internals than possibly replacing an engine. Its basically like insurance. You hope you never need it.

This is, in IMO, the key to the question of whether to go down the Gems route. For lower boost, I suspect that there are cheaper ways of getting there. However, if you intend to continue tuning in the future it might be worth spending the money now and just keep remapping.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
skeletor

I posted incorrectly saying it was £1200 |PLS| vat as I was at home at the time and didn`t realise that Steve`s quotation did not include the vat .

My quoted price was £1395 all in no vat , sorry for misleading you :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
In answer to your original question it depends how far you intend to go

With your current spec you could get to 340/350 ish bhp by just adding a boost controller but that would be about the limit.

Using a Gems you could achive more than this , mostly in a large torque gain which can be fully exploited with a programmable Ecu , plus if your planning to go any further cams etc then the Gems is the best way forward as it can always be reprogrammmed to get the best out of what spec you run.

From the information I`ve gleaned to date ( I have a similar spec to you currently ) I want to run stock internals still but with uprated bolts and amp; mild cams with a Gems ecu set up for 1.5 bar ( don`t want to rev past 7K ) with overboosting in the mid range for large torque which should still be reliable and amp; quick :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Dave

Although I have not got personal experience, but then again who really does apart from a few tuners and Custard(!), I think you have got it about right. I don't think I would like to push past those limits without upgrading internals.

It does appear that while you can get to similar bhp figures by other means, the Gems is a very good tool for unlocking torque. Some of that is achieved by mid range overboost, but there must be more to it than that!
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Does everyone ditch the Mitsi air flow sensor and go Speed/Density (MAP sensor) with the GEMS???
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Llightspeed, I am ditching the MAF - with it having broke before, and with it being IMHO a restrictive device over 400bhp, a MAP makes alot of sense.

Not sure it is the best thing for a road car - after all, pressure is not the same as flow.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for all the info Guys.

I will probably follow the same route as Daved6 just to keep the initial upgrade costs down.

Can anyone tell me if I should look at upgrading the fuel pump when I install the GEMS.

Cheers

Skeletor
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I`ve done the fuel pump wiring mod instead of fitting an uprated pump which for the power we are running is fine , anything over 360bhp would in my opinion need an uprated pump.

The fuel pump wiring mod supplies a full 14v at the pump instead of the 12.5 volts at the pump which the standard wiring supplies when on load.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
my mate with the 22b has just had the GEMS FROM STEVE and he is well pleased als water injection map the lot cost total £1500 . makes you wonder if its worth the xtra for motec ???????????????
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Steve installed and mapped mine as well.

Can only recommend him - bend over backwards to sort things out - did a great job on mine.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Steve Simpson just done full blown GEMS (anti lag, launch etc) on my E7 gravel car....... highly recommended....... superb job ...... car is ballistic.

He can supply RG102 fuel ..... which will increase torque loads.
 
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