[Guest]

Hi!

I recently got an old Lancer EX2000 turbo -81. I believe it's one of the last ones still on the road here in Finland. Originally only about 10 or so was imported according to my knowledge. Obviously the condition is far from great but at least it ran the 300 km trip home. Now I have removed all the interior and welding the car back together is the next thing to do. I'm not going to make a showstopper but more likely a powerfull toy for couple of years.

However I already have some technical questions

I'm planning to install at least an intercooler and run with higher boost. I belive that the original ECU is not good for higher boost without chipping. Of course getting a chip novadays is virtually impossible at a reasonable price. So I'm propably going to need some programmable ecu. The actual question is about the original throttle body which seems to be quite small. What kind of power figures can I expect with that? I heard that 2.4l L-300 intake manifold and other systems could be bolted on, but are those multipoint or single point?

At the moment the turbo is air cooled stock unit. Turbo bearings are bad but it still works. I'm thinking of changing the bearings myself and just hoping that it's balanced well enough to last for some time or upgrading the whole unit to something better. Is there a bolt on alternative? Garrett? Does anybody know any good shops in Germany or Sweden that sell Turbos and repair kits? Everything related to cars tends to be expensive in Finland (100|PLS|% car taxing...)

If I would like to go all the way up to 300 hp what else is needed? The fuel pump is already upgraded to Bosch unit that should be good up to 300 hp. I have a spare engine from a rusty Galant that, according to the old owner, was pushing over 300 hp with 45mm carbs, intercooler and large turbo.

Then a question about the suspension. Does anybody still make lowering springs for EX2000? The dampers seem to be quite new and they are incredibly stiff for an old japanese car The springs look new too but the car is extremely high, almost like a truck. I read from somewhere that Sierra Cosworth spring could be used at front and Escort MK2 front springs at back? Any info about that? The front spring actually looks quite much like regular Sierra front spring. Is there anything that can be done to reduce bodyroll besides changing stiffer springs?

I noticed that when braking with the engine there was a lot of vibration and noise. There was also a clatter from the rear when driving to a large hole and getting moving with 1 st gear. Otherwise the drivetrain was quiet and worked well. Any idea what could be causing this?

Thank's in advance!

-Antti

 

[Guest]

Anttist,

Welcome to the EX club.

As you've probably guessed it's all going to be Do-It-Yourself when it comes to performance tuning a 20 year old car that most people have never heard of.

ECU - you can run up to 14psi on a standard ecu - no problems. As far as the chipped ecu's go no-one ever seemed that sure of what the differences were!!! I'm not sure that the 2 litre versions even fuel cut. The 1800 Japanese versions do.
A programmeable ecu is the way to go if you can afford it. DTA (http://www.dtafast.com) are well featured and good value for money. The standard throttle body is restrictive and struggles to evenly distribute the fuel between the 4 cylinders at high flow rates. Do not 'turn' the throttle body to fit intercooler piping better - it really screws up the cylinder distribution. The 8 valve 2l 4G63 has been fitted to numerous Mitsubishis since and in later forms comes with a nice 4 injector manifold - it needs modifying to move the throttle body to the opposite end but any competent fabricator can do this cheaply. For serious power tuning the 16 valve head from the Galant VR4 (or US DSM Eclipse) can be fitted - it's a big project to do this though! I'm not sure about the L300 manifold - it's very likely that it will fit - the 2.4 4G64 is basically a stroked 4G63 and is the basis for some of the stroker kits available for the 4G63.

Turbos - the TC04 on the Lancer and Starions is very hard to find parts for - rebuilding it yourself will not be a problem if you can find a good bearing kit. Just mark the compressor and turbine positions carefully and line them back up when you reassemble. The alternative is to fit another turbo - Garret T3's can be fitted using an inch thick steel adaptor plate. The later td05 turbos could probably be made to fit - might even fit the existing tubine housing??? Look on the internet for turbo parts - especially the USA - Texas turbo, www.turbochargers.com etc.

If you want 300hp I would strongly recommend forged pistons if you can get them. The std crank and rods are superbly strong but the pistons prone to breaking at the ring lands with the slightest hint of detonation - Mahle RS200 BDT pistons are fantastic if you can find them. The basic recipe for 250-300hp is a 2.5 exhaust, big fuel pump, intercooler (bigger the better), chipped ecu, re timed distributor and uprated clutch. A modern programmeable ecu will make it all much safer. Sierra Cosworth clutches will fit a redrilled Starion flywheel (it has a little more metal at the outer edge than the Lancer one) - essential for high HP.

Springs - you're right about the cossy/escort combination. I can't remember the exact specs - Rally Design sell the escort springs. You can get poly bushes for the front A/R bar and the caster arms. Also replace the rear bushes - it sounds like your clunking could be a dead bush in the rear upper links - when these go the handling goes to crap. Also check the propshaft centre bearing - the rubber surround disintegrates. To improve handling an LSD from an early non wide body Starion can be modified to fit.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

 

[Guest]

Thank's for good answers. I think this information will be a big help for me.

Do you have any idea what is the power limit with the standard turbo (TC06-11A-8, I think)? I haven't been able to find any information about this from the net. These old turbos really seem to be rare and as you say parts are hard to find. I have already asked Turbo City and Motorsport Developments with no luck.

I have to check the flywheel on the spare engine I have. Is there a way to say that it is suitable to be modified for Cosworth clutch? Starions were never imported to Finland but Galants and Sapporos were. The engine I have if from Galant but I don't know the model year. Propably 82-84.

I phoned one of the earlier owners today and found out that for some reason the standard EX2000 Lancer recirculating ball steering has been changed to a slow non-turbo Lancer item. I actually counted almost 4.5 revs lock-to-lock. How fast is the original steering? Is it power assisted? Does any other Mitsubishi model have the original item or something a bit faster than this. It's going to be hard to catch a slide with this kind of steering.

I have the original 14 alloy wheels but I'm looking for a set of 15 wheels. No matter whether they are alloy or steel. I have spare 205/50-15 tires without wheels that I would like to use with Lancer. Is the bolt pattern 4x114.3 mm? How much is the offset? Any other Mitsubishis with suitable wheels? Unfortunately wheel spacers are illegal in Finland so I can't use those on the road - at least legally.

Thank's again!

-Antti

 

[Guest]

I don't have any hard information for these early turbos - at least 250hp - the HKS works Starion Group A engines used a bigger compressor wheel in a machined out std. housing and were rated around 280 hp (possibly up to 350 without restrictor).

The flywheel from the Starion (poss. Gal/Sapp) has a larger diameter main friction surface - on the Lancer it reaches the roots of the starter ring gear teeth - on the Starion - almost the tops of the teeth.

Are you sure about that? The standard steering is about 4.5 turns - not that bad when you get used to it - can catch slides OK with a bit of practice. Non PAS. Starion/Galant/Sapporo are usually PAS and can be fitted - personally I prefer the non power assist. The lower steering arms on the strut bottoms can be redrilled for quicker steering (I've even seen cut and welded - not to be recommended!!!) - a few people have fitted rack and pinion - things get very complicated very quickly when messing with steering - leave it standard until you have calculated very carefully what you want to do. (Some of the PAS equipped Starions/Galants/Sapporos have shorter steering arms with a recentred main ball joint - they can be fitted but a complete geometry realignment is necessary)

Wheels are 4x114.3 with a 24mm offset.
Early Toyota 2.8 Supra wheels are supposed to fit. (not sure if with spacers?)
In UK Pozar Group A Starion alloys were very popular.
Most modern wheels will require spacers because the offset is usually over 35mm.

Check your mail.

 

[Guest]

I finally had some time to check the car (I have been busy rebuilding my motorcycle's engine).

It seems that the propeller shaft centre bearing is bad. I could move the axle about 1 cm and the rubber didn't look so good. Rear axle bushes on the other hand were quite ok as far as I can say. I tried to move the bushes with a large screwdriver and all seemed to be elastic and didn't have free play. The centre bearing is propably the source of clunking.

Anybody know if the bearing is the same in some other models? If I go asking Lancer Turbo bearing from some 3rd party parts shop they say for sure: Lancer turbo? What the hell is that?

My spare engine from Galant definitely has the larger flywheel. I found some pictures from http://www.oldermitsubishis.co.uk/ and the flywheel looks just like the Starion's. It's good to know that I can fit a Cosworth clutch if the original starts causing problems.

Bad thing is that my turbo is actually TC05-12A so it has been replaced by someone earlier. I'm beginning to think that changing the turbo is the best alternative though not the cheapest. Tuning guide on this site says that Garrett T03 is popular exchange turbo. Does anybody know if TD04 Mitsubishis fit with reasonable work? I might have a source where I could get turbos used by Volvo a bit cheaper. I believe they have some models that have 250 hp in stock condition.

-Antti

 

[Guest]

I'm wondering what my turbo really is.

Here's the full identification data from compressor housing:
MH TC05-12A
49168-01600 (last three numbers are not cast but hit with marking tool)
62758 (last four numbers are not cast but hit with marking tool)

The turbo is air cooled. I didn't find any identification marks from exhaust housing.

http://www.turbochargers.com/ suggests that TC05-12A-8cm2 49168-01601 is from 2.6L Starion 82-84. http://www.asysum.com/totdiesel/trmitsu.htm states the same but here the model is 49168-01600 which is exatly the same as my turbo.

Most newer TC05-12A's are with 6cm2 exhaust housing but they are water cooled too (2.0 Starions for example). Is there any way to tell what exhaust housing and what turbine wheel I have? It might well be that this is some weird mix between several turbos. It would be nice to know if I should fix this or throw my money to something else...

-Antti