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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone ever driven one of these ?

I read somewhere that power is supposed to have a transient peak of about 400bhp ??? If not (and if its just 340bhp -ish) why does/did the car cost so much. Surely this car must be a bit more than just a GSR with lowerwed springs and exhaust/induction kit ???

I also read that the suspension is ultra crash bang... anyone know better ?



cheeers


Rich
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Richard,

you're right. It only has 340bhp and is a mildly modded GSR. Definetely not worth that money. The 7 Extreme is modded a lot further but still too expensive. You can get the same mods AND insurance cheaper... Maybe Ralliart gives peace of mind to some people.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I cannot believe that Michael could make such a basic mistake. The 6 Extreme was based on a the RS 2, not the GSR! It did produce 340bhp and 310 ft torque. Full details are still available on the Ralliartuk.com site.

WRT the 7 Extreme, this is a completely different beast as it is based on the GSR and has 339bhp and 350ft torque. Michael continues to state it is too expensive and that you can do the same mods for less and insure it cheaper. The insurance statement is totally incorrect. The 7 Extreme is not considered a modified car by my insurance company but getting these mods done to your car would send the premiums up.

Finally, on cost, I have set the challenge of pricing how much it would cost to modify a car to the 7 Extreme spec. Michael keeps stating it is too expensive without doing the sums. I personally don't think you can do it much cheaper and you would not get the 3 year warranty. So, Michael, until you can produce figures to back up your statements, I think it is probably time to stop making unsubstantiated claims.

BTW, I got my 7 Extreme 4 hours ago. Cannot sleep :D :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Why did one of the magazine reports suggest a peak power of 400bhp ?

I cannot believe that the 6 Extreme is equivalent to a 6 gsr with a stage 1 tune up ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The only thing extreme about the Extreme is the price.

Marketing hype m8 , thats all it is , and as 4 mag reports , they just luv big numbers.

BTW how much is the 7 Extreme , wotever it is I cud get more 4 less :)

I have a parts list 4 the previous Extreme someplace , the major part of the cost was 4 cosmetic parts.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
JacKal

As I understand it it has the following.

Engine
Ralliart ECU
Upgraded Bottom end bolts
HKS filter
HKS exhaust

Bodywork
Different front splitter and amp; sills

Wheels and amp; Tyres
One of the most costly is the 18' wheel/ tyre setup. You can get cheaper but they do look the part.

Suspension
As well as the shortened springs, anyone who has driven an Extreme in comparison to a GSR will tell you that the suspension and steering feel is considerably better. This is achieved through the use of competition bushes througout. The car also has strut braces fitted (not sure if the rear one is optional??)

Seats and amp; Harnesses
The car also comes with a choice of three types of recaro bucket seats and amp; the rear of the car is retrimmed to match. Full 4pt FIA OMP harnesses mounted in an optimum position, not just using rear seat belt mountings. This job requires the removal of the fuel tank etc.

Brian
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Simon,

my mistake, it should have read warranty instead of insurance. But I can guarantee you that you can get exactly the same mods for cheaper:

Ralliart ECU: 550 pounds
Change all the bushes: ~500-1000 Pounds
Change pistons and conrods including labour: ~2000-3000 Pounds
AP clutch, incl. labour: ~500 Pounds
Brake discs: ~700 Pounds
Anti-Flex kit: ~60 pounds
All the other little bits: ~500 pounds
Springs and topmounts: ~1000 Pounds
HKS induction kit with aluminium piping with a sports filter, inkl, fitting: ~1500 Pounds

This leaves you with a sum of 8810 pounds, and I have to say that this is very generously calculated and that you'll get parts that are at least of the same quality, in case of the induction kit considerably better. The real sum would be about 7000 pounds I think. I'm not going to go and get quotes just to prove my point, but anyone that knows something about tuning Evo's will concur that these prices are not too cheap and if some of the prices would be too cheap there are prices which can be done cheaper. Like I said, overall better quality parts and cheaper. Spend the 3000 pounds that are left over on a Proflex suspension and your Ralliart Extreme won't be able to keep up on track. Again, I'm not saying your car is bad, just saying you can get more value for your money which you find hard to believe it seems.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Have to agree with MichaelK, particularly if you buy the GSR yourself (not from Ralliart).

The 7 Extreme S (based on the RS) can be done even cheaper, as the RS only costs £22k to start - leaving you with £16k to spend on the car! Christ, you can do so much!!

But it has to be said that tuning is not for everybody. Some people prefer to pick up the car working, ready to run. Michael, I am sure you will agree, that we have all had our fair share of tuning mistakes - and been left without our cars for lengthy periods of time. Depends how you measure the costs really.

Me? I would buy the basic car and tune it myself, but I really enjoy tuning - and hate standard cars on principal!

Interestingly, if you take all the options (like the AP brakes etc.) the 7 Extreme comes to almost £50k!! That is WAY too much for any EVO.

Congrats on your purchase Simon - if it works for you, and you are happy with the price, then what the ####.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Michael

Thanks for providing the estimated prices. I make the total £8560. I have used the upper end for the engine because there is also the work that is done to the oil and waterways. Now we should add the things you have missed.

Harnesses and attachment points 400
Wheels @ £350 each 1400
Tyres @ 125 500

This makes an addition of £2300 making the total £10,060. Add this to the price of the base car and guess what, you get the same price as a 7 Extreme, give or take a bit. And you get a 3 year warranty!!!

My car was delivered on time ( give or take an hour or 2) and I am now gently running it in. Even only taking it to 4000 rpm, it is pretty amazing. Suspension is more comfortable than I remember and my wife has even been in it without saying never again ( she had better wait until it is run in!!). Driving it home through London traffic this evening, I couldn't help feeling that it was better for that than my old Honda Accord Type R.

So, at least for me, I am happy. Michael has at long last proved I have not paid over the odds for my car, I have the warranty I want and the car is more civilised to drive than I had expected.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Err, Simon I think you're trying to kid yourself. If you calculate the price of wheels on a standard car as you say, I think you should be objective enough to deduct the price of the standard wheels. Let's say they're 150 quid (very cheap estimate) each so that leaves you with 200 extra to pay for, I got my Sabelt 3-point harnesses, including fitting for about 200 pounds. That's another 200 off your price. And as far as counting the price for the tires, please, but if it makes you happy, let's take only 50 quid off for the standard tires that can be sold aswell. That leaves you with a price 900 pounds cheaper than what you calculated. Also, like blade said, there's is also the savings that you get from a grey import that are left out from my calculation. Let's say that's about 3000 pounds. So in total (even if I add the bits in this calculation to the 7000 price of the rest of the mods) you paid about 4200 pounds too much for what you have. For that money you can get an independent warranty, no problem and a decent suspension. Like I said before, someone who knows about tuning Evo's will agree with my price estimates.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yep, sounds right. Cheaper, more fun in the sense that you see the car evolve (!) as parts get fitted and you get to chose which parts you want.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Michael

I know that even if I got receipts you would not believe that the Extreme was a reasonable price but I have done some investigating. Of the prices I could check with independent sources, all your figures were at least 30% and sometimes 50% too cheap.

For example, the Ralliart ECU that you quote at 550 actually costs 627 plus tax |EQU| 736. I got 2 quotes for fitting, the cheapest being £112.80 inc. tax. Therefore the grand total is £848.80. The engine work is also low. whilst 2-3000 could get you the basic change of conrods and pistons, you still need to add the cost of machining the engine and adding tax. I believe that £3500 is nearer the mark and if you check back issues of Evo and look at the work they did on their own 6, you will see that also is in that range.

I, however, made a mistake regarding the cost of the wheels. They retail at £700 plus tax (without tyres!!) making £3290. I do acknowledge that they are a luxury, but having felt how light they are and seeing how good they look, I would still have them!.

Bottom line is, a 7 Extreme would cost you a lot to reproduce. Sure, there are different ways of doing it but having driven the total package, it is so well sorted that I would recommend it to anybody.

I do accept the view that Blade puts forward, that for some people the fun is in developing the car themselves. I am too impatient. Cost is not the issue, reduction of risk is though. The development time put in to the car and experience of Toney at Ralliart ensures that it works and works well. The power outputs support that.

So, Michael, I don't care if you have a personal beef against Ralliart. Lets just agree that there are 2 approaches that suit different people in different ways.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Anybody wanting more than GBP 10 for fitting a Sports ECU is a thief! GBP112! You must be joking man! Take off two clipped plastic parts and two screws! If you pay that kind of money for fitting a Sports ECU you probably paid too much for the car as well! :D Uskomatonta (unbelievable)!
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Just quoting Ralliart and Mitsi dealers as I don't want to invalidate the warranty :D :D

Didn't say the prices were reasonable but anyway, my understanding is you can just plug it in or you can check that the mapping is OK as well. However, don't beat me up if this is wrong. I can tell you all about how to tune cars from the 60's or 70's, weld or mould in glass fibre, carbon and kevlar a whole new body panel set but I know nothing beyond the basics regarding the mechanics of these cars.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote,

I know nothing beyond the basics regarding the mechanics of these cars
And thats obviously why you have bought the car already modified! For those of us who swing a spanner, half the enjoyment of running a car like this is researching, learning and carrying out modifications ourselves which give maximum benefit and normally obtaining parts cheaply. e.g. trade prices and sales, Ralliart often have clearance sales with 50% off, recently selling sports ECUs for £400 inc. This is a plug in and use unit, no checking required. They are also selling Forged pistons, cams, metal head gaskets to name a few all at half price. Ralliart, like most companies, are in this game for max profit, and people who need a comfort blanket i.e. warranty, proven tuning development ect, will always pay a premium. Personally I like to mod a car so it is unique to me. It sounds like you are really trying to convince yourself that you couldn't build a car to a similar spec for less. You could, period. But not everybody is in the situation to be able, or want to, do this. Doesn't really matter though, as long as you are happy with your purchase, this is what matters. Good luck to you. Hope to see you on a track day in the near future!:)
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Listen guys, you don't have to be a petrol head to love Evo's. It's like saying that you can only enjoy films if you're a film director. I would pay over the odds for security that is for sure. Comfort Blanket is a bit strong I think - I'm no nervous child sitting in a corner sucking my thmb. I just like a stress free life and I'm willing to pay for that. Chill.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
SiKo,

I'm sorry if 'Comfort Blanket' offended you, I won't use such strong language in future:) . It would be a boring Forum if everyone agreed with each other don't you think. Personally I enjoy some friendly banter, on the topic of discussion naturally!

Clive
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here we go again, a good post spoiled.
It's not surprising we are loosing people with this kind of stuff.
The cost of anything is relative to one's circumstances. Simon (or anyone for that matter) should not be targeted because he has decided to go in a direction that is the best for HIM. We would all probably spec the car he has slightly differently but we won't be driving it, Simon will, and before anyone else in the Country - Exlusivity comes at a price, Simon and indeed more than half a dozen others who have placed orders for E7Ex's feel it's a good value proposition.
 
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