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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've got the following set up;

Alpine IDA - X001 with blue tooth and ipod module.

focal front & rear speakers.

i need a bit more bass to really but dont want to cut the rear shelf for 6x9's. has anybody got any ideas for a 5 channel amp that will fit under the drivers seat and a small sub that fits under the passenger seat. I'm looking at a stealth set up. any ideas?
 

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...silent but deadly Adam, i used to be the GingerNinja until i found out that my complexion made me glow in the dark, kinda limiting for a night assassin! :lol:
 

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:rotz: i haven't got any of the Lo-Profile Race-Track 13"x7" available anymore - they wern't viable for me to batch build...

I do have these tho ;) these are the units i am using in my dba home and studio series - they are car-proof.

Its a Dual Voice Coil 8" long-throw subwoofer. It has a Polycomposite twin-laminated cone and Butyl Rubber surround, resonance free chassis construction, twin spider, a HUGE motor :D ...the plus points go on and on and on...lets just say for its size (compact for a Sub) it isn't compromised in performance having the speed qualities of a smaller sub and the force of a larger sub (the compromise is in control, to keep it under control is costly, precision engineering isn't that cheap :eek: )


You like?
:coolsm:

I'll PM you a price...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
looks meaty!!!

The amp i'm looking at is

http://alpine-electronics.co.uk/index.php?id=pdx-4150&L=1

would this amp run the my back speakers and that sub?

I also have a brand new pair of Infinity Kappa 6 x 9 that i might swap the phase speakers for which do you think would be better amped by the above with that sub, the infinity 6x9 or phase component speakers as im thinking of knocking up some housings for the 6x9s.
 

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I hope i won't get shot for this...6x9's are a compromised speaker by design. They were first produced to overcome a physical problem; the diameter of a round speaker is too large for one of the enclosure planes, X or Y.

A 6x9" will out-perform a 6.5" in lo-bass (if they have relative motor-units and cones etc) due to the increased cone area. A 6x9" will not outperform a 6.5" in the mid-band due to imbalance of the diaphragm (if designed well a round speaker/cone will have less modes of breakup than a 6x9", consider the cone distance from centre to surround, the modes are not consistent in this type of speaker/cone design).
If you were not having a sub i would conclude, knowing the above, that the 6x9" is the 'best' overall compromise to gaining an acceptable full spectrum in the object (in this case your evo).
BUT seeing as you are having a sub, why compromise, gain better mid-band and have a more even spectrum by using 6.5"s...?

Yes the amplifier will work;
Crossover Frequency Adjustment: 1/2Ch + 3/4Ch, 30Hz-400Hz HP/LP/Off
As long as the Low-Pass filter is for half of the unit, i.e. channels 3 & 4....they usually are.
And you could use channels 1 & 2 for the rear shelf units, whatever size you decide upon..

...what you also have the possibility of is High-Pass filtering the shelf to see if the spectrum to your ear benefits from this more direct type of notch filtering in your overall - less can be more with respect to audio, the 'less' in this case is only one speaker set will be performing the low frequency part of the spectrum instead of 2 trying to do the same job with a differing effectiveness.

How are you powering the fronts tho and what speakers are you using at the front?

Audio is very subjective, few people listen in the same way and share the same taste, so take my comments as my opinion, my taste in reproduction may be very different to your own.

danny:smthumbup

P.S. no tweeters on the shelf unless you really love the people in your back seat or if you get driven around in your car, again they're a compromise, they add to the top end which is very nice but in a moving object they have the tendency to drag your attention backwards in the object - this isn't a good idea as your concious and unconcious focus should be forward, its a car remember ;) and a bl00dy fast one at that:mhihi:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Thanks Danny for text. I've also got pics below of the future set up along with your sub;

I have these Phase PCS 16.2 fitted now

Principle: 2-way koaxial system
Nominal Power handling: 90 Watt
Max. Power handling: 130 Watt
Impedance: 4 Ohm
lower cut-off frequency: 34 Hz
upper cut-off frequency: 30.000 Hz
soundpressure level: 91 dB





Possible fit my Infinity Kappa's 6 x 9 (110 RMS) (330 Peak)

General
Power Handling, RMS 110 Watts
Power Handling, Peak 330 Watts
Sensitivity 95dB
Frequency Response 35Hz - 25kHz
Mounting Depth 3-3/16"
Impedance 2 Ohms





Alpine 4 way digital Amp
*

Features
* (SPK Connect)
* 4Layer Glass Epoxy PC Board
* Class-D
* Layered Installation
* 4/3/2 Channel Operation
* Thermal Management Processor
* Adjustable Crossover (HP/LP)
* MOSFET Power Supply
* DC-DC PWM Power Supply
* MOSFET Final Outputs
* STAR Circuitry
* Auto Over-Current Protection
* Top Mounted Blue LED Power/Status Indicator
* Integrated Wire and Mounting Screw Terminals
* Input Channel Selector
* Input Mode Selector Switch
* One Side Terminal Layout
* Gold Plated RCA Input Connectors
* Continuously Adjustable Gain Control
* Gold Plated Power Screw Terminals
* Dimensions: 257mm x 192mm x 62mm

RMS Power
* [2ohms @14.4V 1%THD]: 150W x 4
* [4ohms @14.4V 1%THD]: 150W x 4

Bass Engine® Sound Tuning
* Crossover Frequency Adjustment: 1/2Ch + 3/4Ch, 30Hz-400Hz HP/LP/Off
* (-12dB/oct)





I have access to a joinery shop In my construction firm so i've been toying with making a mini acoustic shelves to house the 6 x 9's as if I intend using the 6 x 9's they need brackets to fit.
 

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Danny,

those subs.

1. how would they sound without a box?

2. assuming I care a little less about boot space, what would be the effect of fitting one or two in a vertical centre line instead of the 13 by 7 shown in the picture above.

I believe my PG amp has the oomph to drive them, so is it worth considering?

let's take money out of the equation too!
 

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Agh-Hell i'm dealing with 2Adam's here :lol:

Addo; Amp is fine and as assumed the x-over is flexible enough to give you tweaking options once everything is in place:smthumbup still leaves the burning question "what are you using up front" (in terms of speaker and amplifier)....if there is a 2ch version of this wee amp i would use that for the sub (sub's as it is one physical speaker but has 2 voice-coils hence 2x inputs) and i'd use the 4ch version you've shown as the front and rear speaker amplifier (both could go under the front seat, or simply atach them to the baffle board ;) ).

Adamantium; ok, replacing one for one would have the affect of increasing the attack but you'd lose the clarity of the truly lowest notes and the integration to the other components. The 13x7 compensates for the 8" inverted neo's on your shelf. In essence, to your ears, there is no end of one speaker and start of another, they are a near perfect partnership.
However the 8" DVC long-throw is a Subwoofer, its job is to create low bass in large attacking portions. I designed it to be very efficient in achieving its task, even on a small input its not shy with its output and is remarkably controlled (hence its the one being used in the dba home and studio equipment). A very similar version to this, and the inspiration of this unit, is a mid-bass PA driver we sell to xxxxxxx, even this 8" measures very well up to low Khz.
Now then, as it is 3Ohm per coil (13x7 is approx. 1.8Ohm) if you powered one coil instead of serial as the 13x7 it would be effectively louder for the same input - clarity is a subjective thing and it'd be too difficult for me to speculate. So, on the same current amp, is swapping one for one worth it??? I'd have to say no (bugha, talked myself out of another sale! must stop doing this :eek: ). Would it be worth swapping one for one if you could power both coils separately, well that's like asking if GSC S2 cams will yield more power than GSC S1's - on paper yes....but would the car drive 'better'?, i'm afraid that answer is subjective again (but i would put a fiver on 'you s h i t i n g me of course it would, yes':mhihi: ).

Few, nearly at the home stretch now.
Fitting 2x 8" DVC Long throw's.....you'd need a 4ch amp to do the investment justice, just like the amp addo has shown (where all channels can be Lo-Pass filtered just to deliver lo-bass & Sub elements of the spectrum to the speaker's many voice coils :coolsm: ).
My only concern for doing this (and i'd love to see it but wouldn't want to push someone down this slippery slope) is that it would unbalance what you already have and may force you to dramatically up-spec everything else in order to get at an even point again, apart from a few db's you are already at that very same point now......a bit like buying a 260, spending a grand to take it to 380bhp and not even changing discs and pads in the process - you realise your error and go get some great brakes - you then realise you've got used to the power and then 'think' the brakes outperform the power of the car -------- its a never ending circle:rolleyes:

The weight is a large factor in this, the 8"DVC long throw is quite svelte for a traditional design, the 13x7 is in a different league altogether...i should have perhaps sent the sub and the baffle separate so customers could've felt the weight relative to something at Halfrauds.
The molding of the heavily FE'd plastic chassis and the hand modification required to make it suitable for the spectrum required of it in the Evo is what killed it for me, it wasn't cost efective to produce in even small batches (you, and the others who have them, got a bargain:wallbang: )

Hope this helps you both [if i'm not clear, i admit i am tired - been one hell of a week already and apparently its only Tuesday:blah:]
danny:smthumbup
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I was thinking of powering the rear 6x9's or those phase pcs162 and your sub with that alpine and letting the head unit cope with the front speakers and fade the rears and to gain up on the amp to try to balance the system.

At present i have Phase cxs 6.5 at the front (with no separate tweeter)

Principle: coaxial fullrange car speaker
Nominal Power handling: 90 Watt
Max. Power handling: 135 Watt
Impedance: 4 Ohm
lower cut-off frequency: 35 Hz
upper cut-off frequency: 29.000 Hz
Crossover frequency 1: 4.100 Hz
soundpressure level: 90 dB

But i think the pcs are better and i'd probably use these in the front with rear 6 x 9's and sub. Do you have any decent tweeters i can install with the pcs as they have a cross over box but no tweeters that are well needed by the wing mirror casings.

i maybe wrong about wich is better.

http://www.phase-linear.de/produkte.asp?p=lautsprecher&view=detail&grp=9&ser=53&nr=131066&lang=EN

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Preferably i'd want to use one amp for the set up for weight and wiring issue but i suppose the lower version of the alpine could be used the PDX 4.100 and then stack a PDX 2.150 on top. If i went down this route would the Evo's tiny battery cope with the loading and would the alternator suffer to keep the battery topped up?

Also can you get a separate loom with spade connectors plug directly to the speaker loom to save me hacking into the oem radio loom just incase i need to remove it at a latter date if i sell my car?

cheers
 

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Hi Addo (Adam ;) ),

Ok answers 1x1:smthumbup

"I was thinking of powering the rear 6x9's or those phase pcs162 and your sub with that alpine and letting the head unit cope with the front speakers and fade the rears and to gain up on the amp to try to balance the system"
As you turn the volume knob the differential in the Headunit gain and the amplifier gain will not be equal, after a few clicks they'll be exponentially different - this isn't advised :eek:
Best way is to have all the cabin speakers from the same amplifier, either headunit or stand alone amplifier. Obviously stand alone will carry greater quality and overall SPL.

At present i have Phase cxs 6.5 at the front (with no separate tweeter)
These would be better unless you have ears on your shines, you never know hence i ask ;) [i really hope you haven't :blush: ]
http://www.bassjunkies.com/?pid=324...perture_id=904533445010554&mode=&source=brand

But i think the pcs are better and i'd probably use these in the front i wouldn't agree, not harshly disagree but just for these 2 reasons:
1. a Co-ax is a compromise in spectrum, it was born to compensate for poorly performing whizzer-cone full range speakers where the environment won't allow a separate tweeter.
2. you don't need high frequency coming from behind you in a car - IMO. If you like that then keep these in place on the shelf, they will be on a very low gain so it makes no sense to change just yet.
[if it were me, i'd get 2 pairs of the MB Quartz and ditch the 2nd set of tweeters, someone off here will buy them to improve their front end - very few evo's came with the 6 speaker option and the A-pillars cost about £30, other Adam (Adamantium) can confirm, i remember him having to buy some for one of his evo's....?

"with rear 6 x 9's and sub." I am not a fan of the 6x9's to be honest :( they will work but i'd advise the above....Don't worry, if you decide to go forward with the 6x9's i am still here to help, and i have made more adapter-rings than hot meals!

Do you have any decent tweeters i can install with the pcs as they have a cross over box but no tweeters that are well needed by the wing mirror casings. i don't but the titanium one that come with the kit above are not bad and they do suit the x-over (this is essential).

i maybe wrong about wich is better. you are not wrong, its a question of how right you are and for how long you are right, audio is subjective, very subjective :rolleyes:

Preferably i'd want to use one amp for the set up for weight and wiring issue but i suppose the lower version of the alpine could be used the PDX 4.100 and then stack a PDX 2.150 on top. :smthumbup they are so small as is the 8" that you could place them on the baffle board, hidden and out of the way.

If i went down this route would the Evo's tiny battery cope with the loading and would the alternator suffer to keep the battery topped up?:blush: i have to answer this on a daily basis, BUT i have a $1,000,000 knife at my throat when i answer our corporate clients :blah: It all depends on your listening habits, if you listen to Drum and Bass at 120dB from the moment you turn the key and you tend to listen for many hours without the engine running - no, your battery will be f'd:eek:
BUT even for 2 amps and with a secure =ve from the battery to the amps i'd recommend no more than a 30amp fuse, if that blows then increase - the last thing you want is to follow the Max Power principles, having a fuse that only blows at 50, 60, 70, 100amps is very dangerous on its own:blush:

Also can you get a separate loom with spade connectors plug directly to the speaker loom to save me hacking into the oem radio loom just in case i need to remove it at a latter date if i sell my car? yup, see here....i still have the 3m version, Ewan bought the rest and had some specially made to order;
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=188268&highlight=amplifier+harness
...although ii don't know why my photobucket pictures have gone, i'll go check:confused: oh, and if you have x-overs you'll need indepentent cables going to the front tweeters, i'd still say put the x-overs near the amps on the baffle board just to make it easier to disassemble as you note that you may want to remove easily at a later date..

hope this makes sense :smthumbup / :smthumbdo
just ask if not ;)
danny.
 

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Just checked Photobucket for my harness pics, i must have had a crop, can't find them anywhere????
I can send you some, just send me an email address.
danny.
 

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Hmmmm, how do we solve the mounts for tweeters issue - i don't have any you see. The dba system had integrated bridges on the tweeters i provided.

i assume you're going for a component set, seeing as you're asking about tweeters, so i'd say get them and see what mounting options come with them.
They'll never have a bridge that will suit a 'behind the A-pillar' fitment, but if they do have a 45 degree angled fitment you could still use the A-pillar cable routing and place them on the A-pillars at the bottom. It is actually a good place for them relative to the cabin design, if you can angle them to fire above the handbrake you are on to a winner:smthumbup
If you remove the system you just need replacement a-Pillars (cheaper ones are the ones without grilles - quids in:smthumbup ).

I will send pics from home later today ;)

cheers,
danny.
 
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