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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can anyone recommend a book or information source on the fundementals of ECU programing/mapping, why pay a so called expert to map your ECU when you could do it yourself! I've met a number of people in the tuning industry who have no Qualifications in this field but have just picked it up on the way, and now charge X amount per hour for mapping your ECU.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
This really takes the biscuit !! perhaps you can post pictures of the blown up engine. Do you honestly think it's that easy ?

It is not just entering a load of numbers, you need a massive understanding of turbocharged engines and high performance tuning. Do yourself a favour and get an expert to do it.

Kevin A
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
An expert eh? Perhaps Michaelk can recommend one! Do you think people have an inherent knowledge of mapping from birth? no they learn it from books, other people and experience, which is putting into practice what they have learnt. Now having worked as an aircraft engineer for 19 years and having degree level qualifications, CAA licences and huge practical experience on all aspects of aero piston engines including supercharging and turbocharging, testing, diagnostics, re-building etc, and on gas turbine engines of which my day to day job working on 3 million pound CFM 56 engines entails a complete and full understanding i.e. all parameters of eec (electronic engine control) including diagnostic, fuel control, airflow control eg variable stator vanes and variable bleed valves, material specs and boroscoping to name a few, I think I might be able to pick up the basics of mapping a HIGHLY COMPLEX four cylinder turbocharged engine given the right guidance. Perhaps you should not judge other people on your knowledge and ability. One of the reasons I use this forum is for the invaluable info that some people post, If all I see is negative replies I shall stop using it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ECU Mapping 101

Some after market ECU's (like the link) come with a basic conservative map where part 1 has already been done for you so you just do part 2

Part 1

It's not difficult to map an engine from scratch but you really need a dyno as it is hard to hold the motor at a particular load point on road or track. You may be surprised to learn that the most complicated thing to do well is actually cold start! Here are the basics...

Basically there is only 2 things you can adjust - timing map and fuel map. Obviously there are heaps of other settings but these can be fine tuned later. Typically the ignition and fuel maps are made up of a grid of load points. You hold the engine in each load point and then first adjust the fuel using a good quality exhaust gas analyser to ensure not to rich or lean while monitoring power output. Normally there is a small band between best ecomomy and best power. You then advance the the timing until the power starts to fall off and/or knock is detected. Some more juggling of fuel may now be needed, etc Now move on to the next cell, etc.

Some after market ECU's (like the link) come with a basic conservative map where part 1 has already been done for you so you just do part 2

Part 2

Once the basic timing and fuel maps are established, you then fine tune the high power and boost response settings on the road. Typically this involves rolling in high gear (say 4th) from low rpm and then flooring it, while data logging. This allows you to check for knock and fine tune the turbo boost characteristics. If knock is detected then reduce timing a degree at a time at the rpm it occurs and/or increase fuel. It should be noted that reducing the timing is bad for making power.

Once a clean pull with no knock at full power can be done then run at max speed and monitor egt. If it goes over 900 then increase fuel until it is down to 875.

If the ecu has lambda auto tune/closed loop then this can be used to fine tune the cruise map also, typically going progressively leaner at lower load settings to ensure good economy.

If it has knock retard then this should be left on.

Various other settings such as acceleration enrichment, etc

FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY

Be very careful about changing weather. ie if you were mapped on a warm dry day and it is now a cold wet day then you will have more 'air' for a given boost pressure and may go lean. The standard air flow setup compensates for this but if you are using a MAP sensor only then it may not.

To be safe you should wire up permanant knock and egt alarms and make sure you are alerted. when driving hard.

Andrew
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thankyou very much Andrew, THIS is the reason I use the forum, excellent information from knowledgeable experienced people.

Clive
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Cive W....you really seem to have experience on this sort of stuff and potentially you are probably the best person to attempt this on the forum. However there are some people here with no experience or understanding of such complex programming procedures that claim they will map their own ECUs 'cos it saves them money. The sad thing is they actually believe this is easy and don't realize the potential disaster they could cause by imputting the wrong numbers!;)
Let us all know how you get along....
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Go Clive - GO GO GO ! (Nice speech)

Any news on the Clive strut brace and when it will be for sale ?

Cheers,

Mark
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mark, I will be working on the strut braces and the filter/battery relocation induction kit during the next month and will e-mail you and send pictures when completed.

PS I checked out your web site last night!

Clive.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Clive trying doing a searches on 22B.COM on the Link ECU, and on scoobynet pre say April 2000 for an insight into this topic. There are plenty of technical references and individuals experience to wade through here.

Steve
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
my son races a motocrosser with a..........programmable ignition
from experience (?) we regularly alter the parameters to suit the event
in the same way we setup the jetting,which is another art im told !
we also have a cupboard full of trophys with a number 1 stamped on them,
not bad for someone unskilled in his shed eh ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Good to hear it PLUTO, it's amazing what you can do even though you're not an EXPERT, eh T27...
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hello Clive
I have my Motec M48pro for sale if you are intrested will come with map motec supplied it with and total access to the program will take £1,200 any one can call me on it 01628 671056
Thanks Mark
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Clive

Read my post again, Did I claim to be an expert? NO I did not. You posted why pay a so called expert to map your ECU when you could do it yourself! this implies that anybody can do it, I'm sure you would agree they could not.

My reply was not negative but precautionary, if you have read any of my replies to other topics you will see this to be the case.

Rgds Kevin A
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Pluto,

In what way is the motocross ignition adjustable? Most competition ignition boxes don't have any timing advance at all so all you can do is set the timing for the full rev range (or is that what you're doing?). Are you using a retarder box that wires into the existing ignition system to sort the mid range out? If so, are they any good?

Just curious btw - I've spent many a happy afternoon changing main jets, needle positions and ignition settings to get usable power out of 2 stroke engines but never got round to trying out a retarder box.

Clive,

I have colleages who write ECU calibrations on diesel applications. Once you have a starting point (ie the Mitsi cal) and get some time on a dyno, the rest is a doddle.

Cheers,

Mark
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just curious , now that we seem to have a load of expert programmers on this board and amp; its obviously so easy to do
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
T27..., I think you misinterpreted my last post, I know you didn't claim to be an expert, you said I should get an expert to map my ECU. I want to learn to map an ECU myself, and I agree it is not a job that anyone should attempt to do, but the original post was asking for info for me, not for other people. I accept you were telling me to be precautionary as you obviously do not know my engineering background and ability. But I have to say the first part of your original post was mildly condesending.

Clive
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Dave,

I'd love to be an expert, but I'm sure it would take many years! I have to start somewhere, thats why I asked for any info on this subject:)
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
programable means programable ......i.e. with a laptop and software !
im past the days of filing out the stator slots.!
we also use launch control with good effect ! (yes,on a motocrosser,yes you can,yes it does!)
they are readily available,mail me if you need info
If you know what a rs125 is,(road racing),im currently fitting an rs engine in a cr motocross chassis !!!!

the motec is a bargain !

mouton ????.........sounds french ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Pluto,

Thanks for the info - moto-x are obvoiusly a bit more advanced than the karts I'm more familiar with. I had no idea this stuff was readily available - I've always been stuck with the standard motoplat stuff.

RS motor into a CR chassis. The karting boys stick the RS top end onto the CR bottom end with good effect but you loose the mid range from the CR power valve. You're son must be one hell of a rider if you're sticking the RS motor into his bike. It's a pain keeping a non power valve engine on the boil during karting (I run Fairless and Heywood tuned TM K7 engine) - moto-x must be even harder still.
 
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