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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For the past few weeks I have been trying to narrow down my choices on Suspension. After reading all of the posts and communicating with Blade directly, Drummond look to be a good bet. My application would be fast road and the odd track day and I guess the absolute requirement would be to minimize roll and have high quality dampers that can actually keep the tyres in touch with the tarmac (and not just the edge of the tyre) all of the time. I also want to get rid of all understeer (which is probably a stretch).
After talking to several companies - all who have completely different opinions, I am completely confused.
I am being told that ALL high performance competition struts (including Drummond??) are not suitable for a road applicaiton due to the fact they are not fitted with seals which prevent dirt and gravel from entering the units. The lack of road quality seals also means high maintenance as the units would have to be cleaned and kept dirt free. I was also told of one Evo owner (black Evo 6 from the Greater Manchester area) who fitted Drummond struts and the units (bushes??) failed after 1500 miles - anyone on the forum??
I am being offered fast road kits from Proflex but just don't know if these units will be up to the hard job I have in store.
Constructive help and advice would be much appreciated.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The Proflex fast road kit has the same technology as the standard shocks although more efficient. They have dust seals to my knowledge. I have the 3-way adjustable Gr.N Proflex shocks with single tube technology, very good and value for money (should be about 3k list price right now opposed to 5k for equivalent Öhlins). No dustseals, which means you have to take them apart every now and then (I've run them for about 6 months, about 3k miles, will clean them soon) ,depending on usage, and clean them. Öhlins is the same I believe, don't know about Drummond. If cleaning them is a problem for you, a professional kit is the wrong choice for you.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Have run 3 way Proflex on E5 rally car all this year .. very good but you do need to take the fronts off regulalry, strip clean and refill with lubricating oil. Seal are OK but water does get in especially when steam cleaning.

Drummond have no official support in UK so not may people use them.

Ohlins .. too expesnive !!!!!

We are just about to start building a E7 car for next year and have decided to go for Rieger 3 way.... a bit more expensive than Proflex but worth it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The proflex fast road kit is just a normal standard suspension as koni!

I have the proflex gr.n, they are very good for fast road use.
About dust seals, there are ones between the body and the tube of the shock, but not something that cover all the tube, so what do you mean by dust seals?
And do you mean to open them for cleaning?

If you go where Michael did, you can have them for 25k, and in france you can have ohlins for less than 40.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Any one experienced Quantum? i cant find a single web page or people that have them. the only person i know have a set Quantum T6 on his GT-R. but i havent experience them yet (the car still in the shop).
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi SuperL

Sounds like asking a question here just confused you even more. Let me tell you this:
the only type to go for is single tube
Good well-known brands include Öhlins, Proflex, Dynamic and appearently Drummond in Australia
Prices for 4 units are between 3k and 5k. (MAXI meant 2,5 and 4k, not 25 and 40)
Do not worry about the cleaning, have a garage do it yor you every 4 or 6 months or so. No big deal. Only people who do not know / supply them or think you are slow will tell you not to get them

Fitting this type of suspension for road use requires your supplier to know the right spring rate for non-slick application. They will need to set up the bump and rebound for you as well (in the beginning). You will get a much better feeling for the car and can concentrate on driving, not on adjusting body position because of roll.

However, it will not get rid of the understeer. To get rid of the understeer, fit a front LSD. What car have you got? What type of front diff? I have a TME, THERE IS NO FRONT DIFF IN THERE AT ALL. I know, I took the part (transfer case?) out yesterday. You could see the metal bar in there...
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks everyone for your comments - Claudiuslow, you don't know the half of it!
I was even told on Friday that putting any competition suspension on a road car was crazy as the real stuff is meant to be worked hard through the full length of the strut. Using the real stuff in a fast road application would lead to ceasures as the the dampers are never worked hard enough to keep them right. Now, I must agree, some of this last comment makes some sense and the guy that told me this could have easily had 3 grand out of my back pocket - Instead he recommended the fast road kit at a grand.
Is there a grain of truth in this comment??
PS my money still remains in my back pocket!
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sounds like utter crap to me SuperL!

Tarmac rally suspension is perfectly suited to fast road use and to the circuits. Perhaps the margins on the pro stuff aren't so good, and maybe they don't like selling people kits that need maintenance. The other thing to bear in mind is that there are no real kits as such for pro stuff. You choose the valving of the dampers, the spring rate, the spring type etc. It is a very personal thing, and sometimes means trial and error - maybe the guys you spoke to don't want to get into that. Hence why they offered the road kit.

There are too many people here who have proper suspension and have had no issues. I would still try and get a sealed kit if you do alot of road miles.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
People want to sell you stuff they dont need to worry about setting it up etc. Plus they probably make better money on the road kits (which are crap, like Koni suspensions). Go to a serious motorsport company who know how to set up bump and rebound adjustable suspensions. And who know about spring rates.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Claudius / Blade I am fast finding this out. I am totally amazed at the BS I have been told this last week on something as simple as suspension!! God help the Evo rookies out there trying to piece together reliable information on engine tuning, brakes, interior, tyres and everything else to improve their cars - You could easily make many costly mistakes.
So the favorite at the moment is....... Drummond 50mm rally tarmac spec suspension with very slighly softer springs.
Now I need to find the lowest cost route to getting a hold of a set - Any ideas?!!
Thanks to everyone who contributed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok - I have finally found out, it looks like 50mm rear 55mm front.

Here are the prices I paid (gulp!):

Suspension Kit - £2250
Additional Eibach Springs - £265

All plus VAT. The kit did come with double progressive springs, which would be good for the road, but still too soft for track :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Blade
Looks in line with what DMS are telling me. Do you know the spring rates/lenghts that were supplied with the standard kit and the rates /lengths you have from the Eibachs now??
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No, but PE will. Think it was 400lb front 450lb rear, and the originals were around 350. Something like that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Everyone, what SuperL got told about the shocks not being worked hard enough is actually very true, at least for single tube racing-dampers without dust seals like Proflex and Öhlins. The problem is that there is oil at the bottom of the shell (don't know what it's called) that holds the damper and it needs a lot of wheeltravel and hard hits to generate enough pressure to push that oil up the damper to lubricate it properly. You'll never get hard enough hits on the road for that, these dampers need rally type jumps and potholes. The story about them ceising I also think isn't very true, even if you don't lubricate them properly. I was told to spray some WD-40 on the damper every now and them to lubricate them and keep the seals working. Like that, no problems. SuperL have a look at the Proflex Gr.N and see what you think before you buy anything, as these are the best value for money in my opinion. Ok, they're a bit more expensive than the Drummond (not in my case
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Very true, but now blade is going to tell you that the Drummonds dont need the separate gas canisters as they are thicker and therefore do not heat up as much (which I think is theory). But as scoobydoobymikey says, each to his own...
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi MichaelK
Thanks for the response - I spoke to Proflex direct on Friday and they are HIGHLY reluctant to sell me thier Gr. N Kit. They told me that they had experienced a ceasure case because of the lack of movement in the Gr.N stuff in a road application which does not give me much confidence! The guy I spoke to was brilliant by the way - very knowledgeable, very open and very informative and could have easily talked me into 3 grands worth of stuff - in fact he didn't and offered me the stuff they sell at a grand which he said he sold in high numbers to race and rally schools and fast road customers - A refreshing change to the sharks out there waiting to rid you of your hard earned.
Remember, one of my criteria is - Low/no maintenance and I cannot take the risk of the dampers ceasing as of course there would be no warranty if the company in question has stated that they have not recommended their dampers for my application in the first place.
I do agree with you however, the Proflex Gr N stuff looks brilliant and I am sure if cared for correctly must be outstanding.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If it was the Proflex reseller for the UK (can't remember his name), he's extremely knowledgeable and probably is just scared of possible liability issues. Could be that the guy who experienced the seizure is sueing the poor geezer. The system has to be looked after properly, which means lubricating it with WD40 about once a week and cleaning it when needed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
SuperL, just checked your profile, I suppose something happens when you cross the 30 year threshold...
 
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