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Please read this thread first to get the background information to my problem (I didn't post this in there because long threads take ages to load up

My Clunk on full right lock is being cured hopefully as I write this. It did mean the involvement of the Ralliart head technical honcho even after I gave my garage the details shown below before they even started work on the car (ever felt like you were banging head against the wall?). Anyway the fault is a VERY interesting one and can effect ANY Evo 6 GSR it seems and possibly other models.

The Symptoms
Let me just recap on the fault symptoms:
A loud 'clunk' noise, one every revolution of the wheel on full or partial right lock. This is exactly the same symptom (in my experience) as a worn driveshaft CV joint.
Inspection (feeling) reveals that the driveshaft is 'clunking' but it feels within tolerance compared to the opposite driveshaft.
No other components show up the 'clunk' (i.e. it can't be felt holding the strut top mount, the strut, anti-roll bar, suspension arms, track rod arm etc. etc.)
Listening carefully from both sides of the engine reveals the noise coming from the Transfer Box area.

After describing the symptoms on here and getting many helpful replies (thanks everyone) I received a very interesting email from Elvis who sometimes posts on here. Suffice to say that Elvis was VERY knowledgeable regarding Evo's and was extremely helpful! (I think Elvis wants to remain in the background so I won't name the person but their knowledge was vast so that might give you an idea where they work!) A few emails were exchanged and the fault sounded more and more like what Elvis was describing. Anyway enough of the intrigue let me explain what the problem is.

The Fault
As you may know the Evo 6 GSR has an 'open' type front diff (situated in the Transfer Box) as standard. There was no option with the GSR to have the more desirable 'Torsen' type 'Helical' Front Limited Slip Diff fitted; only the RS version had the LSD as an option. Allegedly Mitsubishi either ran out of the standard 'open' diffs when assembling the E6 GSR's or there was a large order of LSD's cancelled so the GSR was fitted with front LSD's to get rid of them. Fine you think! LSD for free, not bad! Unfortunately that was not the case! The LSD requires 4 fixing bolts to hold the unit together, for whatever reason allegedly Mitsubishi in some cases decided to only fit 2! This means that eventually the bolts either snap or work loose. Once the bolts fail then the differential is unable to synchronize the opposing wheel speeds properly and hence the 'clunking' noise occurs especially on full lock. Depending on what bolts fail then the 'clunking' can appear on the left, right or both locks. (Note: although the bolts can break off it is virtually impossible that the broken pieces will cause any damage as they cannot physically get to the crown and pinion gears.). I assume continued driving in this condition will eventually cause a major failure with the unit.
Unfortunately there is no way of checking if a 'helical' type LSD is fitted to your car other than by stripping down the Transfer Box and looking through the unit where the driveshafts enter. If you can see a cross shaft inside then it is standard, if not it is a LSD. You can check if a 'plated' diff is fitted (as on the rear of an RS or RS-2) by raising all 4 wheels off the ground and then turning one wheel on the suspect axle. If the wheel on the opposite side turns in the same direction then a 'plated' diff is fitted. Thanks to Paul Curran for this info

The Cure
Surprisingly the unit will not be damaged unless driven hard for a long time so repair to the LSD is a simple matter of removing the transfer box, removing the cover and extracting the broken bolts and replacing them with 4 new items. Unfortunately there are NO Mitsubishi service items for the transfer box other than the oil seals but a fastener company can supply the correct bolts (M8 bolt with approx 20mm thread, countersunk head, high tensile, 12.9 grade are ideal but please match the new bolts to the old to make sure of the thread etc.).

Summary
So there you have it. I would like to say that this is a very rare problem but Elvis has personally repaired 3 cases of this fault in E6 GSR's in the last month. Unfortunately Elvis couldn't tell me the age of the vehicles in order to try and work out when the 'batch' of front LSD's may have been fitted (works on too many Evo's to remember them all!). For reference my E6 GSR is a grey import and first registered in the UK in May 2000 so probably manufactured in 2nd to 4th quarters of 1999.
If anybody else has had this fault then please post on here or let me know.

Makes you wonder what other 'faults' may be lingering in our Evo's doesn't it?

Thanks to....
Everyone who replied to my original post, all your input was gratefully received.
Special Thanks to:
Elvis of course for being so helpful and patient in explaining the fault to a mechanical 'thickie' like myself and actually being right! (Big head) Paul Curran (GSRed) for his input in trying to help in solve the problem and for listening to my whining. Cheers mate! Greg Best for his email explaining about a possible top mount problem. Not this time but worth noting for future reference, thanks! Howard Banks for info on sourcing a second hand Transfer Box (new are |PLS|£2k!) luckily not needed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Colin,

It is this type of information that makes the Forum so useful.... great information.

If anybody else has this clunking it would be useful for them to note it here and then it may be possible to build a mini data base of which Evo 6's are affected.. i assume that rather than doing it on which year and quarter the cars are made.. it may be interesting to do it on chassis numbers to nail down batches... just a thought

Jevo
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Heave Ho......................
I have this same clonking noise on my E6.It is also a grey import but first registered here in may 1999.
How easy is this problem to check???I am not much of a mechanic so I would not want to take to much apart.
My car is getting serviced next week my a ralliart dealer,is it something they could fix?
Does this Elvis person run a garage and do you know where it is as if I do have this same problem I want it fixed.
Thanks for any info
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Jevo,
I asked Elvis about the approximate year etc. because I knew that Elvis wouldn't have made a note of the Chassis number. You are quite right though, a chassis number would be more appropriate for checking purposes.

Colonel Smith,
You do not need to take anything apart or use any tools to narrow the fault down to the Transfer Box just your ears and your hands.
A 'clunking' noise on full lock can be a number of things and not necessarily the LSD problem. I don't want everyone to think that a 'clunk' on full lock is immediately this LSD fault. As I said previously when it happened I thought it was a worn CV joint on the driveshaft as the symptom is exactly the same (Elvis said it is often confused with a worn CV joint). The only difference was that the 'clunking' was noticed virtually overnight whereas a worn CV joint should get gradually worse and that’s what made me investigate further.
Driveshaft CV joints only really wear if dirt enters them and grinds the joint or water rusts it (once the grease runs out) so the first thing to check is the Driveshaft Gaiters for any signs of splits or escaping grease. Make sure you extend the gaiter out by whacking on full lock as it’s easy to miss a small hole. If your Gaiters are OK then you need to make sure where the 'clunk' is coming from.
You can trace where the noise is coming from if you can stop the car just as it is making the ‘clunk’ then rock it back and forth while listening or feeling the various suspension components. Try holding the strut top mount, strut, spring, anti-roll bar and links, suspension arms especially the bushes and the steering arms. If it is a LSD or driveshaft fault then you will only feel the 'clunk' on the driveshaft (or it will be considerably worse on the driveshaft). Actually listening from underneath and from above with the bonnet up from both sides of the engine will narrow it down to the transfer box area if it is a LSD problem. Jacking the car up to check this doesn't work as (I assume) there are no transferring forces in play while the wheels are off the ground and spun. However a worn CV joint should still make the noise when jacked up and the wheel is spun. This should differentiate between both faults.
A Ralliart approved garage should be able to fix this, especially if you give them a copy of this thread. My local Ralliart garage managed it but not until the Ralliart head technical honcho, Darren Huges, was involved. This was mainly because there are NO official details on stripping the Transfer Box down and I think my garage were frightened to touch it without detailed instructions consequently my car has been away for 4 days now when Elvis assures me it is only a matter of a mornings work to fix. Personally I think that if I didn’t give my garage details of the fault they would have wanted to replace the whole Transfer Box at £1624|PLS|VAT instead of the price of 4 bolts!
If you are pretty sure that the fault is the LSD and you are not far from Ralliart themselves then take your car there for your next service. I can’t confirm (because I am honestly not sure) but you might find if you go there that Elvis has not left the building!
Colonel, if you are anywhere near the North Hampshire area then I would be happy to have a quick look (if I get my car back today!) email me or post on here.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
HH6,

I was thinking more along the lines of moving forward with getting chassis numbers altho i do appreciate that this may be a bit dodgy in asking for chassis numbers so maybe see how many people it affects before devising such a cunnning plan...

Jevo
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's interesting, because my Evo I GSR also has a front LSD to my surprise. I didn't own the car from new so it is possible that someone put it in after. I also have been getting a clunking noise on full right lock recently, espescially when in reverse. I figured it was the cv joints but now I am thinking maybe it is a differential problem.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
On my old EVO 6 which was the the one seen in a few mags T reg...It used to clonk badly on turning left. I took it back to Park Lane but they didn't have a clue and couldn't duplicate it when they tried. It only occured on slow speeds.. Never mind now as I sold the beastie.. Went onto a Skyline ..now sold and am looking at a EVO7...when Ralliart get it together...
 
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Colonel,
I tried ringing but only got your answer phone. :( I left a message so you can get back to me. I should be available Sunday if you want me to look at your motor. Depends on what room you have but it might be better if you come to me as I know I have room to run you car about off the road.
As you are in Bracknell then Mill Lane, Odiham (near Hook) is not too far from you. They are the garage that sorted my motor. I don't like recommending them for personal reasons but they now know how to fix the diff fault, took 4 days but they got there in the end. I think I embarrassed them into dropping their charges considerably as I gave them instructions in how to fix the car and they didn't have a clue, should have only taken one morning to do it In fact I should be charging them for training :p By the way I was charged for fixing this fault despite having a Mitsubishi Warranty. The Warranty peoples excuse was that the bolts were only loose and not broken so they won't pay out. I haven't had a chance to speak to them yet but I will try tommorrow, I hope they are broad minded as my language will be colourful to say the least :blush: I saved them £2.5k on fitting a new diff and they won't pay out £270! Perhaps I should have driven it until it broke? Sorry, I don't usually swear but there is only one word for this occansion and its ####ers! (rhymes with anchors ;)
Anyone want what is hopefully a completely sorted E6 with front LSD and only an 8000 mile RS engine?
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
GSRed,
Nope, I am not going to keep it, watch the For Sale section soon. May P/X for an Elise or other interesting performance motor.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
HH6

I think you will find the Elise has big build quality problems too! I had one for a short period and it wasn't a bed of roses (sold to buy the EVO).
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I would just like to confirm that everything HH6 has written is correct.
At the begining of the year I noticed a 'knocking' on full lock when turning right. My initial impression, and those of the local Mitsi Dealer was CV joint. Because there are strict rules that Mistsi dealers now have to work to on Evos, this had to be confirmed firstly by mounting listening devices on to the car. CCC first suspected that it was a suspension strut and insisted on changing ONE strut (good news was that I couldnt tell the differnce between a two year old strut and a brand new one). When this did not solve the problem, after a visit and authorisation by CCC warrant manager (This poor guy is in a department of one, and has to personally verify/validate all evo claims throughout the country, so he is rushed off his feet) I had two new drive shafts fitted, this also did not fix the problem. I have recently picked up the car with a new transfer box fitted, and the problem has gone away. The car is now as near to a Rolls Royce as it is ever going to get ( I even put some unwarped disks on to celebrate [these wont last long])

CCC up to this point did NOT seem aware of this problem, I am sure they do now as I know the manager reads this forum (If you are reading this, you know who you are, many thanks for all of your help)

Depending on who I spoke to at ralliart, one person told me that it was the transfer box that was 'broken' with sheared bolts, another person was trying to blame the fact that I had personally 'sha*ged' the Gearbox as the casue for my inordenately high oil consumptio, amongst other things
(again, thanks to the helpful individual at ralliart, and no hard feelings)

This has been the first time that I have been glad that I bought an 'official' car and that CCC are managing the warranty program.
If you are having this problem and have an official car, then it could be worth trying to arrpoach your local Mitsi dealer. One word of caution, CCC offically frown on modified cars
 
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I have also heard about this problem from another Motorsport company namely BTR Preparation (they are currently putting together a group 'N' E7, nice. ;) I am now not so sure that it is a case of 'missing' bolts from the factory but more of the case that they either get broken or work loose. In my case the 4 bolts had worked loose. Once one bolt goes then the rest soon follow due to the increased stress on them. In my case all the bolts were replaced with new items. BTR say if they find it happening then they replace the bolts and tack weld the caps in place so it doesn't happen again, good idea!
 

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Any chance of a set of those bolts?
I think I have the same problem on my 2000 VI, but would like to have the bolts with me before I investigate more ;)

Marvin
 

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Marvin,
PM Oli Goon on here. He has lots of spare bolts kicking around.

Also have a look at this thread for a lot more detail on the problem and a do it yourself guide for replacing the bolts.

Andy
 

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Thanks for the link Andy.
I've already got the bolts ordered from Oli, hope to have a look/fix this Saturday - will update with my findings.
The top mounts have already been replaced, so guess its these bolts or CV joints :rolleyes:
 

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i am getting that clonking noise on right hand lock..and over small bumps too...garage says its anti roll bar or the bushes.
got me thinking now. do i let them do the bushes and see if the prob is still there
 

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You know, I've just recently started having this exact same problem on my TME. Haven't done anything about it yet, since It only happens when I turn fully to the right and at slow speeds (like doing a U-Turn, or reversing). I'll have to have my mechanics check this.. much thanks for the info!
 

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Just to update - mine was the top mounts.
Decided it was better to upgrade to Tein pillow mounts from Camskill as these will fit the standard shocks ;)
 
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