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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I not really sure that you have made the right conclusions Shorty. My car makes about 370 Hp on high boost. I still have standard internals and turbo. So from what you are saying my car should be shagged. Well still goes like a good en. My high boost setting is 1.6 bar. Only differance is that I have a Ralliart ECU to dump more fuel in at high boost. I also have a uprated fuel pump to enable the fuel to be pumped out at these levels.

My car could make more but as I have said before the injectors are almost maxed out so you really need larger injectors to safely run higher boost than 1.6 bar as you car will start to lean out.

Thorak

Just my 2p worth.
 
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Thorak,

This is some thing that keeps getting conflicting reports .Ok so 3 bar would blow the turbo .so any thing under 2 bar is quite safe .Can use a boost controller for this.
keeping temperatures down Ie exhaust/coolant/oil/would extend the life of the turbo and engine parts.
I get a bit ####ed when most say got to change all the internals at over 340Hp ,but yours are ok.
which still leads me to believe the engines are stronger that we give credit ,but a certain MUST above 400HP.
Well judging by 100 other posts your bottom end should be on the floor and the pistons shaping your bonnet as vents.This is where I really get confused on issues of modding .No one has really taken there car with care using standard internals and turbo to a high level of HP ,well yours at 370 and it still runs ok.
Many seem worried at 340 that any more and thats my engine knacked.
The need for more air ,cold air and general cooling seems par for coarse .I only run with 290 and I worried that getting to 330 it'll end in tears .Bloody hell what ever happened to owning mk11 cortina's and push starting it most mornings.
 
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
When you think about it, who tells you to change the internals? Clearly, people who sell them, and people on this forum who bought them.

I have seen a friend's standard engine explode. This guy always took great care, heating up, cooling down, and changing fluids. And then MAXI is always driving his on the rev limiter, had the Sports ECU with lots of boost for a few days and done 45,000 kms no problems.
 
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Guys,

The standard turbo physically cannot flow more air than 0.27kg/s. As it spins faster the pressure at the outlet will increase but the mass flow will not. Now 0.27 kg/s of air equates to about 380hp. So anyone who is getting more than this from a standard turbo is not neccessarily talking ****** but has had there motor on an optimistic dyno. On this basis Thorak's motor is on the limit of what the turbo can produce mass flow wise.

However this is not to say that this is causing any undue stress in either the turbo or the engine. The turbo cannot flow more than the 0.27kg/s. It ain't a case of exploding above this limit it simply won't go above it. Obviously at 380hp you are 100hp over design. If you do not provide adequate fuelling for the extra air then the engine will explode.

From my previous reading and experience (mainly not on evo's admittedly) I would have thought that the standard internals would be sufficient although perhaps with the fitting of some uprated big end bolts. The main thing to consider is the fuelling requirement which will almost certainly require a updated map in the ecu. As the standard ecu cannot be reprogrammed this means a new ecu. Most of the ecu programming tools allow the injector cycle time to be checked which would show if you need bigger injectors. the trouble with a new ecu map is that it is only as good as the tecnician who programs it on the dyno for your motor. A crap map will mean poor driveability and/or reliability.

To summarise the standard turbo is good for 380hp, if the engine has been suitable upgraded. Trouble is knowing what upgrades are required and what the tuning houses are pushing because they make alot of money from it.
 
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Hi Guys

Interesting point Oli goon. So what you are saying is however much I tune or muck about with my engine.(BTW I should inform people that I have had my con rod bolts changed to ARP ones. This was done for safety reasons and you do not need to remove the engine to do it. You do need to remove the sump so doing it when you change oil would be ideal. BE WARNED the sump bonding agent needs a good 6 hours to cure or better to leave it all night and then you can wack in some oil and start the motor. )

Anyway back to my point I am a driver who is not that worried about BHP as I prefer Torque as that is what you need on the road/track for drivability. So what if it only has 370/380 BHP as long as you can tune the engine for more torque I would be happy. Thats why my next upgrade will be a programable ECU. This hopefully will sacrifice some Hp for Ft/lb :)

So basically you need to get good amount of power is std turbo with enough fuelling to stop det and std internals (well maybe the rod bolts upgraded). The ralliart ECU does this well and the pops and flames from unburnt fuel proves this. ;)
Thorak
 
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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Despite all .what then throws a spanner in the works is that Simon on his 0-60 sprint does it in 3 .5 s states his mods. Running 1.2 bar.|PLS| Trax day E4
He has bigger turbo ok not necessarily needed ,in fact not needed now we know can run 3 bar on standard.he thought Bhp is 350 ,but running figures along side cossies 500 and 400 ,his Bhp must be higher ?
Or an increadible torque figure .
Should I just give my car to a tuner pay an instalment of £500 a month for 5 months and see what they come up with?
 
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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Shorty

You are forgetting one thing, Evos are 4 wheel drive we have double the traction of these other cars so we will almost always get a better 0-60 time. The only requirement for a quick 0-60 time is a decent clutch, a good twin plate will knock at least 1 sec off a 1/4 mile run but have you checked Simons spec tubular manifold, external wastegate. I assume these will always be better than OEM. Real test is not on standing starts but accl through the gears.

Thorak
 
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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
It's interesting that Simon has a Greddy Turbo kit as it's exactly the same kit I am fitting to my Evo. I have already priced the kit that comes with Manifold, Wastegate, Turbo etc. and I think is far better priced that the HKS one. They also do a 25g Turbo for more power, the likelyhood is that Simon's car has standard pistons according to Greedy running a 20g turbo.
 
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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
I reckon Simon should post the details on here ,i know its on the Yahoo and i know he was finding out about whether upgraded internals have been used .
It would be a good indicator if its running on standard pistons and runs reliably.with just 1.2 bar boost for the 0-60 run.
Ooohhh errr .Get it to a track.
 
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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Luckily my car came with all the bits fitted, if you want any GReddy bits over here speak to my mate Tim Stanburyat SVS, he sells the GReddy td-06 20G turbo kit for £3600 |PLS|vat, and if you mention my name (Simon Michael) he might give you a bit of a discount

SVS
01483 285 657

The turbo is bloody good, starts pulling hard from 3000rpm and is at max boost by 3500rpm holding boost all the way to the redline (external wastegate obviously helps this)

As for pistons in my car, it will be difficult to find out. Over the next few weeks I'll be taking the car to Mark Shead, (MA Developments) and he will take the sump off to check if the rods are forged and to see if we can see the underneath of the pistons, we may be able to tell from the casting.

Cheers

Simon
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Not wanting to throw the cat amongst da pigeons, but I've never understood why turbos are preferred to superchargers? Is it just cause you get the boost for 'free' from a turbo, but power is sapped using a supercharger? Is the power loss of a supercharger significant to negate the benefit of no lag and boost throughout the rev range?

Menthal ... dumb arse when it comes to understanding engine tech.
 
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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
My two pence worth :)

Don't forget that there are other ways of getting more HP from your engine. ;)

Some old-school tuning also unleashes A LOT of power in the 4G63 like:

* ported and polished cylinder head
* bigger valves with stronger springs
* camshaft upgrade with adjustable cam gears
* upgraded intercooler piping (less prone to heat soaking)
* usual downpipe, extension kit and cat-back exhaust upgrade

Personally, I believe in Thorak's engine making 370HP and still reliable enough to last significantly. |EQU|)

Thorak, would you mind if I asked you to email me your engine's modded specs? :)

Thanks guys, I got lost in the highly technical discussion here, my head is still spinning!!!!!!! :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Menthal,

Turbos vs Superchargers. Hmmm works the length of war and peace have been written on this one.

Basically though a supercharger gives instant boost at any revs as the rotating elements that acheive the compression are driven from the crank shaft. Whereas with a turbo you have to wait for the impeller assembly to spin up to
100 000rpm |PLS| before you start to get boost. Hence when you intially plant your foot in a turbo there is no boost and you have to wait for the massive increase in exhaust gases (caused by planting your foot) to spin up the turbo. This is known as turbo lag. On the first turbo cars this was horrendous as the turbos were not well matched to the engine, however these days turbo lag is fairly minimal and you soon get used to it.

The big advantage of turbos is that they are more effecient than superchargers. this is because they are extracting energy from the exhaust gases that would otherwise be lost. Also most superchargers are of the positive displacement type which is less effecient than a centrifugal type compressor that is found on a turbo or a small number of superchargers eg Vortech type.
 
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