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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bloke bought my car privately about a week ago . I had it for one year no problems apart from one minor electrical other wise car was sound.

I get a call yesterday saying car is crap!:eek: He's had a specialist look at it who says it needs some serious engine rebuid work and he wants me to sort it out or take the car back!! Can't believe his attitude!

What ****es me off more than anything is that it genuinely was a great car!

Any opinions on how I stand legally?
As far as I'm concerned on a private sale it's 'sold as seen'.



( This is not my EVO 6 I'm talking about just to make that clear!)
 

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He may have come-back if the car differs from what was advertised. Sold as seen only works if you specified that when selling it.

Has he stated what serious engine rebuild work needs done? Can he prove he has not been a silly bugga' with it since he has got it. Has he turned the boost up and see's an easy way out of a costly repair.

When was the car last serviced by you? Can you prove all was okay at that time?

The more evidence you have to prove it was okay at the time of sale the better. Although I bet you gave him all the documetation away with the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Car was definately as described and was serviced three weeks prior to sale by main authorised dealer!

He's saying its long standing mechanical damage so says he can't have done it but has'nt specified exactly what the problem is.

Trouble is its a well known british make of sports car not renowned for engine reliability! so maybe there is engine ware and tear but all I can say is I drove it for a year without any trouble at all.

Yes I gave him all paperwork, service history etc. with the car.
 

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No such thing as 'sold as seen' im afraid dealers try this all the time,if it went to small claims court which is the only place that will deal with such a claim they will judge it on how much he paid you for the car in relation to how long that car was expected to last-in other words if he paid £500 for it and had it for six months they wouldn't even consider it going to small claims,if on the other hand he paid £3000 for it and had it six months then small claims would consider it/however like stated above other variables come into it like has he screwed the nutz off it,as its a performance car(presumably)then people obviously buy them to use so you have a lever there!also has he modded it further if so its his fault completely!loads of ways around getting out of it but if he does go to a solicitor then they cost money so your best bet is to ring citizen advice and keep your replies to him as cheap as poss,he will soon give up!good luck :)
 

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Sorry to hear about this mate. I think you are better off going to where the car was last serviced as they will have dates and times etc on record and get them to say in writing that the car was fine when it came out from their premises. Every garage has a duty of care and thus an obligation, this written evidence will provide you with strong ammunition in court. If you dont feel like doing that just tell him to '**** off'!! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeh - I think '**** off' sounds good to me!

I'll give the dealer that serviced it a ring first then decide from there.

What amuses me is its the lads father thats the one doing all the shouting and he claims to be some big wig car dealer himself!

Car dealer saying he's been ripped off :crackup: :crackup:
 

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petbeemer said:
No such thing as 'sold as seen' im afraid dealers try this all the time,
They certainally do and if you buy something from a dealer of retailer it must be "fit for the purpose" that it was sold for.

If it was a private sale however, you have no such obligation. The car must be what you described in the advert, or verbally, and if you were asked any specific questions you were obliged to answer honestly but under the sale of goods act, Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) applies to any private sales. So sold as seen probably does apply here. :D

BTW, I think you only count as dealer if you sell more than 10 cars in a 12 month period.
 

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Steve PH said:
They certainally do and if you buy something from a dealer of retailer it must be "fit for the purpose" that it was sold for.

If it was a private sale however, you have no such obligation. The car must be what you described in the advert, or verbally, and if you were asked any specific questions you were obliged to answer honestly but under the sale of goods act, Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) applies to any private sales. So sold as seen probably does apply here. :D

BTW, I think you only count as dealer if you sell more than 10 cars in a 12 month period.
:smthumbup

spot on.
 

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think you will find that being a trader nowadays its a lot less than twelve cars! autotrader etc now monitor your details anything over 5 a year and your classed as a trader,as for the sold as seen bit im talking from personal experience buying a dodgy car from someone it only lasting 4 days before going pop without me doing anything to it!(before i became trade)the courts ruled in my favour and stated there was no such thing as 'sold as seen' the guy(who genuine as could be i think to be fair)had to pay me back the money plus court cost's and my solicitors fee!
 

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petbeemer said:
think you will find that being a trader nowadays its a lot less than twelve cars! autotrader etc now monitor your details anything over 5 a year and your classed as a trader,as for the sold as seen bit im talking from personal experience buying a dodgy car from someone it only lasting 4 days before going pop without me doing anything to it!(before i became trade)the courts ruled in my favour and stated there was no such thing as 'sold as seen' the guy(who genuine as could be i think to be fair)had to pay me back the money plus court cost's and my solicitors fee!
The autotrader definition of a trader isn't necessarily the accepted legal one but I wouldn't swear that I was right on the quantity. As far as the law goes private sales do not automatically carry the same requirement for merchantable quality that commercial sales do but from what you say there may still be some grounds in some cases, possibly under contract if not as described etc.

Probably for the best that I chose to stick to the spanners! :D
 

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How did you advertise the car and what was the contents of the advertisements wording ? if you used an Ad . If it was the usual in excellent condition full service history etc etc then you wont have a leg to stand as the purchaser will have a copy of the Ad and the car wont have been as described and deemed to have been misrepresented by yourself.

If he can prove that it is not in excellent condition with an independant report then you will have to accept resonsibility for some of the costs if not all plus any expenses involved including loss of earnings car hire of a vehicle etc etc or refund the chaps money.

Really does depend on the wording of your advert though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Yeh, I put the usual excellent cond, fulls service history etc. because thats exactly what it was!

It had a main dealer service three weeks prior to sale! Infact I rang them up after his complaint and they said the car had been fine and that anything untoward would have been brought to my attention at the time of the service otherwise. - whether they would put that in writing though is a different matter, knowing car dealers they'll absolve themselves of any responsibility if they possibly can.

Fact is if the car has some mechanical problem there is no way I can be deemed to have been aware of it because I simply wasn't and theres also no way of knowing what this guy has done to the car in the intervening week he had it!

As long as I have not knowingly misdescribed the condition of the vehicle then he has no case and frankly he could have given the vehicle any inspection prior to purchase - RAC, AA what ever and chose not to. Its a specialist vehicle with effectively a motorsport engine so you'd think that was a sensible thing to do!
 

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D2 said:
:hammerhea are you happy with your choice??
Oddly enough, yes! I'm self employed and earn reasonably well, I specialise in running and electrical problems which keeps the job interesting and whilst the hours are long I couldn't face the thought of being stuck in an office all day long.

Can't complain :coolsm:
 

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kinetic said:
Yeh, I put the usual excellent cond, fulls service history etc. because thats exactly what it was!

It had a main dealer service three weeks prior to sale! Infact I rang them up after his complaint and they said the car had been fine and that anything untoward would have been brought to my attention at the time of the service otherwise. - whether they would put that in writing though is a different matter, knowing car dealers they'll absolve themselves of any responsibility if they possibly can.

Fact is if the car has some mechanical problem there is no way I can be deemed to have been aware of it because I simply wasn't and theres also no way of knowing what this guy has done to the car in the intervening week he had it!

As long as I have not knowingly misdescribed the condition of the vehicle then he has no case and frankly he could have given the vehicle any inspection prior to purchase - RAC, AA what ever and chose not to. Its a specialist vehicle with effectively a motorsport engine so you'd think that was a sensible thing to do!
Unfortunately ignorance and lack of knowledge isnt an acceptable form of defence. The court will only be interested in the facts. As the vehicle failed so quickly then in the eyes of the law it couldnt have reasonably been deemed to be in excellent condition at the time of sale.
Did you not write out the standard reciept of " sold as seen to Mr Bloggs for the sum of £ XXXX " ?
 

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co55ie said:
Unfortunately ignorance and lack of knowledge isnt an acceptable form of defence. The court will only be interested in the facts. As the vehicle failed so quickly then in the eyes of the law it couldnt have reasonably been deemed to be in excellent condition at the time of sale.
Did you not write out the standard reciept of " sold as seen to Mr Bloggs for the sum of £ XXXX " ?
Most of these things come down to the legal principals of reasonableness.

If you had gone to reasonable efforts to keep the vehicle maintained and had fair reason to believe that the vehicle was in good condition when sold the buyer would probably have to come up with some evidence that you did or should have known that it was not in the good condition that you had stated. The subsiquent breakdown doesn't help but if you had done as much as a reasonable man could to maintain the vehicle and to describe it fairly for sale then I would still aim for Caveat Emptor as your defense - this would not work in a trade sale as the duty to sell something fit for the purpose is absolute but as a private sale it still ought to be ok.
 

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This is what im right in the middle of !!!

I bought a sports car which blew up after 30 miles of careful driving all the way from Manchester to Kent, this is going to cost me about 8k (new engine, turbo, clutch) and i have written a letter to the chap (dealer) and told him to put his hand in his pocket and help me out, not all of it, but at least 50% as i paid top money for an oldish car with goods mods, low miles and history.
Granted the car was fine on test drive, but something isnt quite right, ie different cams to what was advertised when we stripped it down, so i can move forward with trade descriptions if he gets funny about helping out.

I contacted RAC legal dept and they said that the trader is fully responsible for putting the car back to the specification advertised, but as im a nice fella and this can happen, i trying to be reasonable with him.

As a private seller, i'd tell him that there is nothing you can do and see what occurs.

Good luck !
 

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This happened to my dad a few years ago - he sold an MGB it was in fine condition. with 100k on the clock

The guy who bought it took it home and proceeded to take the engine apart (nothing wrong with it he just wanted to rebuild it :confused: ) When it was in bits he sent my dad a bill for the rebulid claiming that the engine was worn !

Dad told him to go whistle !

He was a copper and threatened to "make life hard" -- always nice to know you can trust a friendly policeman !

Anyway he went away quietly in the end

As I've found in other legal disputes, best policy is to let them bring the fight to you, be as evasive as posible, only answer letters, phone calls etc if you HAVE to. - make it hard work for them and they will probabally go away !
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
TCP -

Yes I think you are spot on. That appears to be exactly what this guy has done! except he's used a so called 'specialist' to pull
the engine apart for him.

Also I just noticed in one of his emails he descibed himself as 'being in the trade'. I think he is just taking the ****!

Richie Russ,

Christ that sounds horrendous! - I rekon they will sort it definately if pushed hard enough.
 
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