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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thread was getting too long for modem users!

N-ring, I haven't had time to look at the new air box fitment in detail, the first time I saw the car was Saturday (they have been working on it since end of June) and I spent all day driving it!

Don't like the brakes? Well, they perform really well, even if they are not as sexy looky as those Movit ones!

Hope to do the ring next year - will prove the car is stable and reliable first - I wouldn't want to breakdown in Germany!

Question - do you need normal seatbelts in France and Germany, as I only have harnesses now (which is OK in England).
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Maxi, I totally agree that the Jun would be more powerful.

The main reasons why I said my car isn't practical each day are 1) It takes a few minutes to put the harnesses on 2) It takes a while to get in the car with the seats, doorbars and rollcage 3) It takes a while for the engine to warm up 4) The suspension is too hard for UK roads (I can't be bothered to adjust it!) 5) The roof vent is so noisy you need ear plugs when you are driving (or you need Claudius to follow you in his car with his ICE turned up to drown out the noise!!)

None of this of course will stop me actually driving it on the road!! I hate to admit it, but after driving it, my M5 felt, well, bland - slow, heavy and too refined! It is a bit like being married to the perfect wife (M5, though she is a bit overweight) and have this young, dirty, sexy girlfriend that you see now and again and have an amazing few hours with. Not that I would know what that is like, of course!!! Pheeww!

I am thinking about coming to the Rally... Some pictures of the car in action were taken on Saturday, and I am waiting for those to be emailed to me, then I will get DAveG to post them again!
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh - Maxi - about the turbo, you may well be right. I think what I will do is go with 400bhp now, see how that goes, then try the new turbo - if it doesn't work out, I can always go back to a setup I know worked.

You are right - I will probably get bored of 400, and want more - who knows, I may end up with the stroker kit!

The reason why we were making a new manifold is because the one available for it (HKS) was extremely expensive, and PE want to make a kit that is cheaper for people to buy than the Jap ones.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Blade,

there's at least five different manifolds available for the Evo in Japan and they're not that expensive if you import them directly. They are usually part of a turbo manifold combo, although they can be bought seperately and there are special manifolds that are made for the standard turbo. I'll check the prices at home tonight in the Hyper Rev Book. When are you going to get a proper ECU? You do realize that with the power that you are talking about the standard ECU is way out of it's depth and is not adjustable enough to get the most out of the engine. A 32-bit Motec or Gems with MAP and all the sensors attached will make the car a) more powerful b) get you a better powerband due to superior mapping capabilities c) make the car a lot safer to drive cause it'll alert you if something goes wrong. You should also loose the boost controller cause that's not up to racing-ECU standards either. Not having a dig at PE (although they are a bunch of gimps :)), but just stating facts. Have you seen a winning Gr.N Rally Evo with a standard ECU, or put another way with anything else than Motec or GEMS?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Blade

I have been thinking the following: why not get the shaved crankshaft even if you keep the std turbo? Should improve torque and power especially low end with your cams. What do you think?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
MAXI

Stop talking about what I would say or might say. If I take out my a/c, the car wont be faster, just warmer inside. If you take out 150 kg, it makes a big difference.

I think blade is doing it the right way, improving the standard set up instead of getting a turbo with a lot of lag and a lot of power at hi revs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Claudius - now you got me - what exactly is a shaved crank (I know the Jun is shaved, but what does that mean?)

Is it losing the balancers of the crank (which would make it rougher)?


MichaelK - Thanks for the info on the manifolds - I await the prices. I do understand your point about the MOTEC etc. I doubt the mapping would be any better, as PE can map the standard ECU anyway I want. I don't want (or need) the antilag, but the early warning info and telemetrics would be useful. I haven't ruled it out, but I have spent a shitt load of money already. I will see how this goes first. I would almost definitely get a MOTEC if I got the bigger turbo.

What would be interesting would be comparing my car with, say the JUN, or Roy Weg's car, to see how different they are.

Claudius - I think the 150kg is very noticable. Put it this way, I am pretty sure that we have removed 150kg from my car - and on Saturday it ran 310bhp, but was as fast as when it had 352bhp (but all the weight). A quick calculation confirmed that the power-to-weight was the same. 150kg on an RS-X is about a 10% reduction in weight, which is the same as a 10% increase in power. It made a huge difference to how nimble the car was, and the brakes and tyres seemed much better, and seemed to take much less strain. Honestly, a big difference. It is probably the most expensive modification though! The cost of removing things like sound deadening is horrible! Did alot of the work myself though...
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What is a jun, and what is sport auto mag, come on Blade if you can run an M5 and an EVO you can easy stretch to a motec.

No only joking, PE are very good they have been going a long time, I remember they were 1 ofthe first Turbo tuners around, I went there over 10 yers ago, I think the rolling road guy was called Mervin, is he still there.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yeh! Mervin is still there!

Seriously, I think it is good to do it a step at a time, as it does help other people judge how effective mods are.

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, or do I mean the racing?
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Daz, Jun are one of the leading jap tuners, make crazy cars (always called Hyper Lemon bla..bla and the cars are inevitably a nasty shade of yellow!) They produce cars like 1000bhp skylines, 600bhp EVOs etc. etc.

Dunno what Sport Auto is - a mag of some kind. Not British I don't think....?
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sport Auto is the German equivalent of Autocar but a little more biased towards performance motors.

I think a 'shaved crank' is a knife edged crank. Gains power by reducing oil and air drag on the crank. For reliability on anything less than a full race motor I wouldn't bother.

Blade if PE can really re-map the standard ecu as well as you say they can then a Motec/Gems hardly seems worth the extra money. The standard ecu is a fine piece of kit with good safety features (knock sensor) and reliability. The only downsides to it are
1. Boost cut.
2. Air mass flow meter restriction robs power and has a maximum flow rate..
3. Reprogramming is impossible for nearly all 'tuners'.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Lightspeed and blade,

the standard ECU is in no way as adjustable and doesn't have the computing power of a Motec or Gems (both 32-bit, the standard is 16-bit, I think). There is no way you can adjust timing and fuelling in as fine and precise steps as with one of the professional ECU's. I'm not even talking about anti-lag or launch control yet, just the normal mapping of an ECU. In this category the standard ECU already looses out and I bet any EVO will have a better powerband with a professional ECU than with a standard one if they're mapped to the same standard. Also, the Motec M48Pro has a datalogger which'll be very important in a highly tuned car, as you can do logged runs on the road and check for knock, etc.. Then you can also run the car on a MAP rather than an airflow meter, plus the alarm functionalities are essential if you're going to go to 450 bhp. If something is going wrong with the standard ECU you're never going to know until it's too late. Basically there is no argument for a standard ECU compared to a professional one. Go and have a look at the Motec website http://www.motec.com.au and check the M48Pro (read through the specsheet) and then you won't be saying that you can do as well with a standard ECU. You might as well check the GEMS page http://www.gems.co.uk/ and read about their Lancer Rally-replacement, which isn't their top of the range product either.

Now to the manifolds: Couldn't find the Hyper Rev Book as we still haven't moved and it's packed away somewhere. BUT I found a Lancer Evo magazine which had a test of the standard manifold against the Bozz speed manifold. Obviously it was better and the price was 135,000 Yen (777 pounds) for the manifold and 35,000 Yen (201 Pounds) for the small manifold after the turbo with a hole for an EGT sensor. There was also a solid (maker) manifold which costs about the same as Bozz speed . There weren't prices for the HKS manifold by itself, but the prices for the combos with a GT2835 turbo which were 488,000 Yen (2810 Pounds) (External wastegate type) and 435,000 Yen (2505 Pounds) (Actuator type). These are prices if you buy it directly in Japan. I'm going to Japan next month and will try and check up on things if work leaves me time.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The shaved cranckshaft allows to have 2,2liters from the engine, but you also need to resize the cylinders.
Blade, I would like to believe that the PE remap is that good, and I think that it can be quiet good I'm not sayinbg that it's not, but I think that above 350bhp it should be better to go for a serious ecu as hks f con v pro, motec, gems or weber tdd.
There are also some people like Michael K that had really bad experiances with the pe ecu, it means that they can do something wrong with the map. And also you can't have a MAP sensor that would remove the af meter.

Do you know what will be the big turbo, and what will be the price of the manifold?
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
MichaelK, I accept all your points - I think the main issue for me is the information about what is going on in the engine, which I would like to have. It is true that you will get more power from the competition ECUs - what will happen with the standard ECU is that (with the fewer mapping points) , the engine is set to run rich for safety. You can achieve much more precise mapping with, say a MOTEC, than the standard ECU. What this would mean to me in real terms is probably about 30-40 bhp. If I don't achieve 400bhp witht he current setup, I will more than likely go get a MOTEC.

Maxi, I thought the shaved crank was the 2.2l kit (JUN and others do it). The problem with this in my eyes is the removal of the balancer shafts, which is one of the reasons why the EVO is so smooth. I agree the extra displacement would give me more torque, but I think it may be at the cost of smoothness, particularly higher in the rev range. I don't seem to be lacking torque at the moment either. I did consider the stroker kit, but couldn't find anyone who had done it. JUN are very good, but I didn't want to take that risk.

We were looking at getting a second broken engine to build up as a 2.2l with big turbo, as a drop in replacement - may still do that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
MichaelK,

Do you think it is worthwhile changing the manifold even with the standard turbo, or would gas-flowing it be good enough?
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
blade,

I don't think changing the manifold (or gas flowing it) will make a big difference with the standard turbo, but then again a better manifold could produce 5-10bhp more (I guess). How much does gasflowing cost? If it's expensive, forget it. If it's cheap might as well try it, although with the standard manifold you're probably talking less than 5bhp improvement. If you want to go for a Greddy, Bozz speed or HKS turbo combo at some point, just wait until then.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
blade,

since your shedding so much weight from your car why don't you take out all the window and windscreen and replace it with lexan, or something similiar. will this make the car illegal for the road?
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Blade,

I think if PE say they can map it all ok I think they will, if they can make it supply the right fuel and ignition, with the boost you want, thats all that matters, They are groundbreakers on this.

When they do it post the map and show who doubted it. by the way what fuel do they map it to optima?

Darren
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Speed Demon - PE looked at plastic windows etc., but advised against it. Would need to keep the windscreen I think to be able to use it on the road. They said the plastic stuff looks shite. I haven't personally seen it, and don't know who makes it.

If anyone has a different opinion on the quality of this stuff, I would be interested. We did consider silvering the windows, like the Rally cars, but decided against it.
 
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