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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for some help here folks:
I have been toying with the idea of replacing my manifold (slightly moded) with a higher flowing HKS unit (I intend to retain the standard Turbo). The problem is, I am concerned that going this route will make the car run lean using the current standard injector set up. At the moment the car is fuelling 100% perfect with the current manifold but on full 2 bar tilt, we JUST manage to squeeze enough fuel out of the injectors to retain the optimum mixture. As the HKS manifold allows for more air to flow (thus making the Turbo spool faster) will this mean I need to change my injectors to compensate and if so, what options do I have??
Thanks in advance.....
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Simple and easy for you mate! Get the HKS adjustable regulator, the HKS fuel rail and HKS 680cc injectors, then you need to remap it all.

Yellow5 can do all of these for a very good price! This will give you some upward movement too, when you get a bigger turbo (I said when!)

You will probably need a bigger pump if you don't already have one!
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I knew this was never going to be simple plug and play..
As I plan on keeping the standard turbo (HONEST!) do you think the extra BHP/Torque would be worth the additional HKS Fuel components?
The car runs SO nice as it is....
 
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Discussion Starter #4
No, I don't really think you will get any real difference. THe injectors must be close to 95%, so just from that perspective running bigger injectors at 80% would make it safer and possibly have slightly better characteristics - you may be losing power to lean running. Check your EGT and mixture for this.

The main power bottle neck is the turbo unfortunately, all you can really do is add torque.

Another option is to add fuel pressure - but that moves the strain then to the pump.

Leave it - if you go bigger turbo, the 680 injectors won't be big enough anyway!
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Super L,
For you to be advised correctly you would need to give a bit more info.To suggest you buy fuel rails,or go to larger injectors with the info you have provided is daft.
The manifold will make little difference .Please tell me what mods you are running and at what boost.
Then I can advise you accordingly.

Regards Barry:)
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Tony
The good news is we can go for a couple of runs with the Lamda and Lap Top connected and look at the changes the Manifold has made. If there isn't any more fuel to put in with the standard injectors,then the good news is I can take the manifold off and go back to my slightly modified unit and back to my old Map.
I really don't want to compromise the car as the package I have suits me (but not everyone) nicely and thought the manifold would be something I could fit easily, get a good improvement (which still might be on the cards I guess) and not have to mess anywhere else.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Looks like Barry is positioning himself to become the latest tuning guru :D Could be part of his marketing campaign for RC of course :D Once a marketeer, always....

My advice is sound, in response to SuperL's question, and because I happen to know him quite well. The 680's will work and buy him the headroom I know he will need when he finally wants more power. The fuel regulator is already marginal at his current power level, and the FSE ones are not known for their reliability. The HKS one has a good reputation.
The fuel rail is required for the HKS injectors as well as giving more flow, though you can mangle the standard one instead.

All of these components are well tested in power EVOS, many with 400-450bhp.

The marginality of the fuel pump is well known on this forum.

The cheap cheap option would be an FSE regulator to increase the base pressure, risk it with the pump and standard injectors - high duty and irregular spray patterns.

Can't imagine anyone would recommend that :)

:D :D
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Tony I am not positioning myself to become a tuning guru,are you saying that anyone that attempts to give advice (Other than your humble self is).

If that is the case,we had all better shut up,and follow your esteemed lead.:D
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Barry

You say Tony I am not positioning myself to become a tuning guru but then you say Then I can advise you accordingly. Sounds remarkably like you are to me.

As for your comment For you to be advised correctly you would need to give a bit more info. To suggest you buy fuel rails,or go to larger injectors with the info you have provided is daft. is either an attempt to have a go at Blade or just plain putting your foot in it. Blade already knew all he needed to, because he knows the car and what has been done. Why assume that just because you don't have enough information, others don't as well. At the moment it appears that you are constantly having a pop at Blade over his tuning and tuning knowledge. Having a go at me on a personal note is all well and good, but going after somebody like Blade who has contributed more worthwhile stuff to this forum than you ever will is out of order.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
blade is not a tuner,he writes cheques.........we can all do that.
blades car is no longer the most powerfull evo p.e. have had on their rollers,mine is !,
i was the person good enough to lend superl my new manifold,
my car has been developed by BARNY,with help and advice from p.e AND rc developments,both of which we have found very helpfull and proffesional,
just because one person cannot do or understand something,doesnt mean it cannot be done !
for the record,my car uses standard rear light lenses !

oh yes,almost forgot,wait till we get the 6 set up.........................................................................................
 
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Discussion Starter #12
This MC Custard guy is really getting on my nerves now, and it takes a while to do that. He is constantly talking off topic and nonsense. That statement about Tony only writing cheques was most offensive! He is a genuine enthusiast who shares his experiences with us here. There is absolutely no need to insult him just because he may have more money than you because he grew his business. Get lost, MC.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Claudius - :D Didn't know you cared so much! Thanks for your support!

MC Custard:

Don't know who rattled your cage or why you felt the need to insult me, but...:

blade is not a tuner,he writes cheques.........we can all do that.

Never said I was a tuner, but I don't just write cheques. I have tuned lots of cars, and get deeply involved in the subject. Just because it isn't my profession doesn't mean I don't understand it, and don't get involved. I have a BTEC in Engineering - so I am not completely clueless. I share my experiences here to help people out - and people seem to appreciate it. One of the reason I enjoy the EVO and this forum is that I have learnt an enormous amount about the car and various parts - seems a shame not to share that. People can listen to my advice or ignore it, but slagging it off is another matter.

blades car is no longer the most powerfull evo p.e. have had on their rollers,mine is !,

Actually yours isn't - there is an EVO4 that has been on there that had an enormous turbo and produced monstrous power - high 400's I think. Can we see your graph then, or is that a secret? What bhp at the wheels did you get?? Is yours still faster even with my new turbo? Who cares anyway! It isn't a competition!

i was the person good enough to lend superl my new manifold,

Which is very kind of you, and Julian has always spoken highly of you.

my car has been developed by BARNY,with help and advice from p.e AND rc developments,both of which we have found very helpfull and proffesional,

Can't speak for RC as I haven't worked with them, but agree with the comment on PE - who is BARNY? Tell us more...

just because one person cannot do or understand something,doesnt mean it cannot be done !

This is obviously a reference to something, but I am unclear as to what exactly.

for the record,my car uses standard rear light lenses !

Thank heavens for that! So does mine. Good to see you are spending your money on the right parts!

oh yes,almost forgot,wait till we get the 6 set up.........................................................................................

I shiver with anticipation! Any chance we can hear more about your 6? Or is that a secret too??
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Oh, and I was the one who invited Julian down to Donington and let examine my car, and let him go out for loads of laps and shared all the info about my car with him when he was trying to make a decision about what to do with his new car.

Why?

Because I was just glad to help out and consequently Julian got some info, and I made a new friend (and jolly nice chap Julian is too!)
 
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Discussion Starter #16
clauidous,
thats not offensive,believe me !,you will know when im being offensive.
we all write cheques,those of us who are NOT TUNERS !
LONG LIVE THE POUND !
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Guys
LOL - Old MCC knows just which buttons to press - and I am sure he does not mean it!
It's absolutely clear that Blade, MC Custard, Yellow 5, T1RBO, TurboAWD, Simon, Claudius (most recently) and lots and lots of others (sorry if you didn't get a mention) have ALL contributed in a big way in helping me unfog the mist and mystique that shrouds Evo Tuning and which parts to get (either on loan or outright purchase - although being a Yorkshireman, I prefer the former!) - That's the whole reason for The Forum, right??!. My wife and my bank manager on the other hand would not speak of you guys so highly....
What this excersice has proved to me is that this HKS manifold has made a BIG [email protected] difference to the fuelling of the car (which although I say so myself , was perfect). It is now lean so suggests a (big?) increase in airflow over the slightly moded unit and the car will be remapped later in the week to try and bring the fuelling back. There is more than a chance this can be done without changing injectors, fuel rails and regulators but if not, I will go back to my standard set up, stop messing and go back to enjoying the thing!
Many many thanks to all who provided super advice, loaner products (!!) and funny comments.... Deep down, we all love each other don't we?!!
 
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Discussion Starter #18
:D :D :D :D :D

A sane man in an insane forum!

:D :D :D :D :D

I wonder if MC Custard talks that way in real life? Oh well...
 
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Discussion Starter #19
This thread is turning out to be so much fun,thank you Simon and Blade for your mature contributions and for entertaining me when Im bored,and to our german friend Claudius for showing how well he has mastered the English Language,:)

And thanks to Mouton for leaving himself open to abuse, for daring to criticise Blade,you are a brave man Mouton because you know how fast Blade is becoming a legend in his own right:D

When I bought my car I never realised how much fun could be had by indulging in the peritheral activities associated with the Evo 6 ie the MLR.:D:D:D:D
 
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Discussion Starter #20
there is an EVO4 that has been on there that had an enormous turbo and produced monstrous power - high 400's I think.

lets compare like with like shall we ?

Is yours still faster even with my new turbo?
bolt it on to our engine...........yes !

I wonder if MC Custard talks that way in real life?
absolutely !
the difference is,i will do it in public,on here, not behind your back.
walls have ears,however many miles away,walls have ears !!!!!
you know very well what i am talking about !!!!!!

Can i look up at you,as you look down on me,

my point is,if a mitsubishi technician,along with myself,(who knows a fair bit about 2 strokes,nothing about 4 strokes,),can get this sort of power output ,working in a barn, i do not take kindly to being talked down to by someone who is doing the same,but as it happens,has been less successfull....so far.

there are many ways to skin a cat.......our way pleases us.....

if you want a few tips,yes you need the fuel rail,but for reasons you have not yet discovered ,
and a book on cam timing might be of help !
 
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