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Discussion Starter #1
Simon7Extreme was talking about some larger that normal discs from AP that would fit the Evo 7, with the Team Dynamics 18 Wheels, does anyone know which one he could be refering to?
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Hi Ants

It's just down to the size of the brake rotar itself. 17's will only allow 330mm discs,
but 18's will allow the larger 362mm discs. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Thorak
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Ants
I have them fitted to my 7 - I am very impressed with them so far (although I am going to go for the over sized air duct kit from PE when available). The bad news is they are not cheap.....
let me know if you want any more details.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
So isn't the standard 330mm disc not enough? Usually for the weight of the car it should be far enough. If not the disc can't dissipate the heat quickly enough so you need bigger disc which then again increase unsprung weight.
The Movit 322*32mm disc I use is already enough for cars like the DB7, Viper and BMW M5 which are around 400kg heavier. Speaks for itself then.

Cheers

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Why would you need brakes on a DB7????

And what makes you think that 322 is enough?? You should press the middle pedal on your car very hard when going 150 kmh or so and you will see it doesnt brake that well. It doesnt brake the same as it doesnt go when you floor it. You know it!
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Claudius

what kind of answer is this. Doesn't help anybody, does it?

Why do I refer to a heavy car? When braking the kinetic energy will be transformed into heat. The disc then must be able to handle the heat or it will fade because the pads get too hot because of the overheating disc. Even worse it could warp meaning changing the structure of the metal. If you knew the formula for kinetic energy (E|EQU|mc2) you can see that weight varialbe plays an important role even more than the variable for speed. So that means the Movit disc can get rid of the heat during braking very quickly even on a heavy car . It's so good that I stayed colder during tests than the big 380mm disc from Lucas tested by Sport Auto.


Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Scoobymike,

You are probably right when you talk about a different pad compound for Ryan if he uses is car on the road with snow, But about the discs size, what you are saying is funny!

OK, the aston martin uses 322mm 4pot discs and it's heavy. But it's not a car made to be driven fast! The discs will be enough to stop the car when you are at 260km/h on the highway, but on an aston martin you don't use the car as you use an evo vi!
If you fit 18 inches lighter rims with bigger 362mm discs the braking power will be better, and if you try to do braking tests one with an evo vi with the movit 4 pot kit
and one with an evo vi with 18 oz superleggera, ap or movit 6 pot with pagid rs14 pads and 362 or bigger discs, that one will brake harder!

That's why the WRC use 8 pots calipers with 378mm discs!

As Claudius is saying, if your brakes are warmer is not important as long as they don't warp and that they brake harder!
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Oh again if Claudius says something Dario has to jump on the wagon with a very careful considered answer. As usual then.

With a bigger discs you won't brake harder (whatever you mean by this). This is not at all determined by disc size but friction between pad and disc and the offered friction ring of the disc. With bigger disc you can sustain the same brake level for a longer time than with smaller discs as it can again dissipate the heat better. But if the porker disc can already get rid of the heat quickly enough with the above stated size everything else is ott.
According to your interpretation F1 car must have huge discs and callipers. But surprisingly they don't, they even have smaller diametre discs although reaching much higher speeds and having much higher grip levels. Maybe those cars are lighter?
Why does Makinen use bigger discs. Very easy, firstly he drives just a bit harder than you, his car develops much more grip than ours so the tyres are able to achieve more decceleration without locking and he reaches higher speeds between the corners, uses harsher compounds, brakes much more often in a shorter period and with the antilag no braking from the engine so in the end will generate more heat. The weight differs not much than e.g. your EVO V RS as the minimum weight in WRC is 1230 kg.

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #10
So Mike you agree that bigger discs make you brake better! Alright! Now I think the stress on MAXI and my car is not that much less than the WRC Evo: we use the same suspensions (almost) and semislick tyres. But the car is heavier, so grip levels are lower. I need slicks.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
You make my day! Haven't laughed so much for ages after reading your post !!!

Don't waste my time

Cheers

Mike
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Movit uses a new brake upgade, Panda 1.0 Fire 4x4 calipers with 180ml discs and PE brake ducts to reduce unsprung weight and warping.

Ok, Tommi drives the evo wrc faster than Claudius.
But there are other people that races with private wrc or gr.a evo that use the same
brakes as tommi, but they drive the evo not as fast as tommi.
Why do they have these useless 8 pot then?

I don't see why if you do the same special stage with a road evo you should drive it less harder than during the real special stage with a wrc.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
The F1 have a specially developed calipers and brakes to fit in the 13 inches rims, and are anyway very light.
They cannot fit bigger wheels than 13 !

To braking power I'm saying that if you take the two cars at ie 150km/h the one with big brakes will stop before the one with smaller brakes if they have got the same type of pads.

Why does a porsche brakes harder than a clio williams even if it's heavier?
It's a combination of grip and pads surface, but also because the brake size!

 
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Discussion Starter #14
Mike,

If you knew the formula for kinetic energy (E|EQU|mc2) you can see that weight varialbe plays an important role even more than the variable for speed

If you also knew the formula for kinetic energy, your post would have slightly more credible.

Hint, it's e |EQU| 0.5 * mv2

Also, the fact it's the speed (velocity) that's squared, not the mass, you'll see that speed actually plays the more important
role than weight. Oops.

(The formula you quoted was one of Einstein's. I'm sure he'd be posthumously flattered with you using it to explain
basic car physics but that's not what he intended it for ;) )

Ian.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Maxi,

To braking power I'm saying that if you take the two cars at ie 150km/h the one with big brakes will stop before the one with smaller brakes if they have got the same type of pads.

I'd love to hear you try to explain, in physics terms, why this might be the case.

(This should be fun ...)

Ian.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
droid the bigger brakes will not stop you faster than the smaller brakes if you brake once from 150 km to 0

but try this 10 times on role and then see which brakes stop you faster

i go for the bigger ones if you ask me

regards

andre
 
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Discussion Starter #17
doid, LOL, you must be joking when you say that it is the speed that's squared and not the mass! :D LOL

Are you trying to see if anybody has been to school here, or what? :)

Bigger brakes ie bigger disc diameter will allow a bigger pad surface on the disc. I guess that is called friction in physics. And the bigger tha friction, the more the car slows down. Especially MAXI's and mine with semislicks. And they would sure brake much better after a few laps than yours (since yours would be gone). He might not be good at physics, but I'm sure he would scare you on a track! :D

Hope you saw my BMW thread in the Blah Blah section http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/tongue1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle >

Love

Claudius
 
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Discussion Starter #18
I don't know a lot about physics,
But I anyway don't neet to find that out to explain something as simple as that!

If you take a golf with standard brakes and 225/45 17 tyres, and an evo, both with the same pads but off course the evo brakes, and both cold, I gues the evo will brake in less space no?
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Original Post:
doid, LOL, you must be joking when you say that it is the speed that's squared and not the mass! :D LOL

Are you trying to see if anybody has been to school here, or what? :)
Sorry to say this Claudius but clearly you're one of the ones who hasn't been to school.

Anyone who's done basic physics (this one I learned at the age of about 14) knows that
the formula for kinetic energy is ...

e |EQU| 0.5 * mass * (velocity squared)

I'm not sure how else to try and convince you but to say, go find a book on physics
and look it up.

Your explanation about a larger disc allowing a larger pad leading to more friction is absolutely
spot-on, apart from Maxi arguing that exactly the same pad (i.e. same surface area)
on a large disc will lead to greater stopping power (from cold).

Ian.
 
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