Lancer Register Forum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Actually I'm not sure if it's called the Defenser or the Defender but anyway it's the little box of tricks that is supposed to kerb fuel-cuts by fooling the engine into thinking that there is less air coming in then there actually is (I think thats how it works anway!)

The thing is since having a full Magnex exhaust/de-cat fitted to my E6 TME I'm getting these damn fuel-cuts under hard acceleration. The garage have recommended one of these HKS jobbies but doing a search on these forums revealed that these can be dodgy because they can make the engine run lean.

My question is what is the current thinking about all this? Are there other safer ways to sort this problem out without spending a fortune? On my search I saw someone recommend having a better quality fuel pump fitted when fitting the HKS thing and this would sort the lean problem out. Can anyone agree with this or offer further thoughts?

I'm confused and need advice please!

Ady
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
You sould buy a boost gauge or a blitz dual turbo timer or even better a boost controller, and you should low down the boost under 1.2bars so you won't have any fuel cuts! Your actuator could be rusted you should check it!
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
if you don't fit a boost controller you have to modify the restrictor to low the boost.
The restrictor is in one of the hoses near the actuator that will connect into a t.
A slightly bigger hole will do a real difference in boost.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My advice, as an unbiased HKS dealer http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/Wilk.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >

DO NOT FIT AN HKS FUEL CUT DEFENCER TO AN EVO4/5/6 UNDER
ANY CIRCUMSTANCES !

To put it simply, the HKS FCD scales down the output from the turbo
pressure sensor to the ECU. The ECU is then fooled into thinking boost
pressure is lower than it really is.....bingo....fuel cut threshold is raised.

Fine for mild boost upgrades on most Jap cars that use a rich mixture
to keep combustion temps down; not so fine on our evo's which have
an a/f ratio bang on 12.1 on wide open throttle (12.1 is a perfect a/f ratio);
fit an FCD and you will see your mixture going very lean , very quickly.

Of course, you can then cludge this by fitting a higher flow fuel pump
and/or fuel pressure regulator and/or apexi afc.......but it is a cludge,
and a horrible one at that......

I was lucky enough to have use of a £2k wide band lambda sensor
when we fitted the HKS FCD to my evo5, it bypassed fuel cut ok,
but at 1.25kg of boost a/f was 15 and rising fast.....it would
have gone bang ! 8-(

Simple answer is dont be tight, you need to spend some money and
replace your ECU. Link, autronic, motec, even a PE remap. At the same
time you can then accurately map your ignition timing for the shite UK
fuel. This alone should give 20bhp|PLS| with no increase in boost.

Justin
www.torqueic.com
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The other option to successfully defeat fuel cut is bigger injectors and an Apex'i SAFC.

The SAFC works by modifying the signal from the air flow sensor and 'fooling' the ecu into thinking that less (or more) air is flowing into the engine than actually is.

The increased air flow into the engine (which the ecu does not measure) is compensated with the bigger injectors supplying the appropriate extra fuel. Because the ecu 'sees' a lower air flow signal fuel cut is postponed to much higher air flow/power values.

eg. fit 660cc/min injectors 17.85% larger - then decrease air flow signal with AFC by 17.85% and fuel cut will occur at 17.85% more power (approx. equal to 17.85% more boost).

SAFC can also be used to fine tune the fuel curve.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Oh god :(

All I wanted to do was add an exhaust to give me a better soundtrack and now it looks like it's gonna cost me thousands :(

Would it be ok to fit the defenser for say for just the winter and consider the proper soloution in the spring?

Mind you I also have to think of the warrenty. I've got a UK car with over 2.5 years warenty still left to run (and I can't afford to invalidate this)
I might be able to get away with a few small mods but I don't think Mitsubishi would be to happy if I start messing about like this.

Thanks for your replies anyway. I'm off to cry.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cookie,
It doesn't have to cost you thousands.....
If you fit a boost controller (as suggested by Maxi above) you will be able to lower the boost in the area you're getting fuel cut and this will solve your problem. It will also be a useful upgrade for any further mods you might do.

Andy
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ady,
I can fix it for nothing (or you can do it yourself for about £5-£10 with some limited DIY skills). If you only want the sound of the exhaust then dropping the boost below fuel cut levels by altering the restrictor is the way to go (as Maxi says). I did the same to mine when I found out it was overboosting.
I have a load of photos and details how to do it as I was going to write an article on it for WC but the procedure is open to abuse (increasing boost) and can lead to a shagged engine, something I didn't want on my conscience. Anyway Email me if you want to know how to drop the boost.
By the way this fix I suspect is the same thing Ralliart do to cure it but they probably charge you £200 ;) (Its a tabboo subject with them when I suggested thats what they did ;))
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
HH6,
This wouldn't be a scrapheap challenge bleed valve special would it???? Put in the changes to the restrictor you mentioned and you have a fully adjustable boost controller....

Andy
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Andy,
Nope its not a bleed valve, you just alter the restrictor internal diameter size. I dropped my 1.4 bar peak / 1.3 bar held down to 1.2 bar peak / 1.1 bar held.
Its easy to do but also easy for someone to go the other way and increase boost so I don't post on here exactly how to do it.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
HH6,
I realised I was talking b*****s after I had posted which is why I edited my post to add the bit about the restrictor change as well as an adjustable bleed valve. The other option is to add a standard valve in place of the restrictor and then you can variable lower levels of boost (Not that you'd want to of course).
Scrapheap challenge and 21st Century performance have a lot to answer for though...... ;););)

Andy
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Or as I call it 21st Century Scrapheap Performance Challenge, it sounds better ;)
I think I know why you thought I was suggesting a bleed valve, the £5-£10 wasn't for the valve but for a box widdley drill bits and some welding tips (easily converted into a restrictor if you fluff up the original) ;)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
HHS - check your mail please :)

Yellow5 - I meant to ask this in my last post..... does that HKS defencer actually scale the reading down throughout the boost range (ie. meaning that you are running lean ALL the time) or just when the boost reaches a fairly high level (meaning that you are only running lean when you are really going for it)?

Thanks.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
HKS FCD scales the reading throughout the rev range 8-(

There is another cheap option, I sell a better FCD for the Supras.

Rather than scale the output from the pressure sensor, it clamps
the output just before fuel cut. So, this means , your ECU is not
being fooled AT ALL until you hit fuel cut, and you retain a perfect
mixture. However, this means your ECU will not provide any fuel beyond
fuel cut, so if it was fitted to an evo, id be checking fuelling very carefully
after fitting !

Justin


Justin
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Lightspeed,
Interesting, I wondered how the SAFC got around fuel cuts when all it really does is alter the air flow signal to the ECU (lower the signal to the ECU will drop the cut limit but that won't increase the fuel!). There has to be a limit though on how far you can up the boost with that method? Still with 660cc injectors thats about 1.4bar - 1.5bar before cutting may become a problem, probably more than enough for the average owner.
Combine that with SITC to sort the ignition out and you are laughing, more expensive than the Ralliart Sports ECU but a damn site more flexible ;)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Cookie,
As HH6 suggested just change the restrictor E-Mail him and your problems will be solved,the other postings will just confuse you ,they certainly confused me.

Justin,Apexi is a cludge,please explain I would be interested to know your reasons for reaching that conclusion as it is well known that there electronics are far more advanced than HKS,but obviously you know something we dont know.

MY Car, TME Evo6 ,Tuning includes Apexi AFC and AVCR,Uprated Walbro Pump,FSE Fuel Regulator,running 1.5 boost max 1.4 Held,no detonation,no pinking,good fuel consumption,350BHP 320 ft lb

Regards Barry:)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
...as Wazuptommi says SAFC plus upping the fuel pressure another one on the list of fuel cut get arounds (and cheaper than injectors?)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
justin
i have to say the hks fuel computer is the only hks product i have fallen out with
could not get it to work with an evo 5 or 6
was told ,after hours of fooking about,lots of backfiring etc, that it is 2d and not 3d and is old hat technology wise
i think basically its not best suited to an evo
and from experiance the apexi is the only unit to choose
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Apexi AFC's and fuel cut defencers simply fool the ECU into thinking
boost is higher or lower than it really is.

The word fool means cludge , well , it does to me http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/Wilk.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >

Why spend good money on apexi AFC' and FCD's to fool the ECU,
when you can have a propperly mapped ECU for only a few pounds more.

If you want to run decent power out of your evo, you MUST be able to map
ignition, can you do this with the AFC and FCD.....NO....can you do this
with an aftermarket ECU....YES !!!

With a fully mapped and installed Link ECU costing around £1,500,
and a fitted AFC, FCD and FSE costing around £850, if it was my
car id wouldnt think twice.

I know there are plenty of Evo's running around with the AFC/FCD/FSE
cludge , and if your happy with your set-up, your car is reliable and
fast....then great; but you have to realise, a propperly mapped ECU is
*FAR* superior.

Justin
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top