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I'd love an als eventually (one day, pop, pop!) I have a stock E6 (for the time being) and I'd like the upgrades to start in a way the could include an als in the future, so you can imagine I have a few newbie questions on the subject....

(bearing in mind these are also interim upgrades)

1. exhaust, de-cat etc, which combo is best suited for an als (I guess my concern is temp)
2. which ECU? (naturally I'll be wanting to turn the ALS on and off etc), really it eats enough fuel as it is :)
3. turbo, what's the effect on a standard turbo and what should I be aiming to change the turbo to? (I'm guessing I'll need to be changing it)
4. will there be any added strain on the pistons and/or conrods and should I be looking to change them if I install an als?
5. how illegal is it if I get caught ? :)

just looking at this list gives me an idea of how much this could cost :(

any advice or working knowledge would make me love you long time :D

Thanks
Ryan
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know something but not a lot! ;)

1 Don't know what doesn't work but the H and amp;S system is definately OK.
2 Gems is your cheapest option
3 The issue with the turbo is how much you use it. So long as you are sensible, the standard unit should be OK.
4 Sorry, don't know the answer to this one.
5 It is very illegal and I don't know the penalty. However, Mr Plod will have to know a hell of a lot to suss what is going on. ALS is switchable so the trich is to put the switch somewhere easy to get to but difficult to see. Then if you get pulled, quickly switch off and claim a backfire, dodgy tuning etc. and that you are taking it to be sorted ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Simon,
Thanks for the response, re the turbo, define sensible.... I usually go to around 6k rev in each gear (at least) is that sensible?

as for everything else its much as I thought, still not really sure about the turbo, con rods and pistons, any advice?

I agree about mr plod, ponder and where to fit the switch :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
By sensible, I mean not using the ALS for prolonged periods. Use it for too long would probably cook the turbo, damage the bearings and it certainly won't do your oil any good.

As for the con rods and pistons, I don't know if ALS puts extra strain on them but with the programable ECU, you will have the potential to increase the power considerably, particularly if you go for a few other mods. Making the engine bullet proof gives you many options.

Fit the switch under the dash.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah I don't think I'll be absuing the als that much, not really that practical as I use the car every day, would be more of a special occasion thing ;)

Anything else that might need attention, doesn't seem like a great deal needs to be done to set the car up for ALS....

Thanks Simon
Ryan
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You should speak to Ralliart, they can install a GEMS ECU with ALS. I guess ALS will put extra strain on the internals since you always have a lot of torque. Ralliart will tell you to change them. The turbo will not last very long with ALS, a few thousand miles.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah I think I'll chat to someone about it when I take my car in for a service next month, I've managed to blackmail my girlfriend and parents into buying me car parts for Christmas :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I looked into ALS quite seriously when I had my GTiR. I was due to go for a MoTeC ECU (before I sold it and got the Evo 4). There is one guy in the GTiR club that runs it with a MoTeC and it is truly awesome when engaged.

However, there are a few drawbacks, mostly to do with Exhaust Gas and Turbo temparatures. During most hard running, the EGT will run at between 600 - 800 degrees C (depending on Turbo size and boost levels). The problem with ALS is that as soon as it is engaged, those temps will jump up by about 2 - 300 degrees C which is way too high for a normal turbo and exhaust combination. I believe titanium can constantly withstand those temps but there is another material which is used by the rally teams which I cannot remember the name of which is perfect for the use of anti-lag.

I think ALS would be fine on a normal setup if used sparingly, other than that, you would be replacing your turbo and exhaust every few thousand miles if used constantly.

Thats what I found out at the time, there may be other valid opinions around, I don't know what the absolute correct answer is.

Hope this helps

Simon
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Simon, I'll def be changing the exhast anyway and I guess I'll have to look into another turbo, I'd already thought about putting something bigger in there anyway...
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ryan,
im running switchable als on my rs450 via a gems ecu and map sensors for instant response .Heres what i know anyway.....
Makes car a pain to drive (smoothly) below 3000revs
Gives a instant throttle response on a series of tight bends.
Keeps turbo spinning whilst changing gear so pick up is there straight away.
Not really beneficial on straights.
At night lights up like a fire work when looking through rear view.
Gets rid of muppets getting to close to rear end and sometimes makes them duck a bit ,thinking its a shooter.
Reserve use for special occasions unless your a proffesional rally driver or in a competition.

Group n rally cars use the als system and run management systems and near standard engines the key issue with yourself is the turbo,as rs run the titanium version (maybe to accomodate als and more abuse,)But i should think for occasional use the standard would do ,obviously if you abuse it then you can justify changing to the titanium version.I ve had no problems with anything on my motor in the past2yrs and use it only occasionaly(weekend/dry)etc.Heres some very knoledgeble rally contacts whom use als on there lancers and can map to suit..
Ears motorsport(macclesfield)They do a group A exhaust in stainless as used on there cars and cheap
Adr motorsport(chesterfield)
btr motorsport
im running a blitz nurspec system on my car and had a super dragger on,but to be honest if doing it again would go for a group a system which are far cheaper ,ive had it with the jap large bore systems which dont help bottom end on my motor anyway may be due to the omega pistons(low compression i think),Look at tommis evo ie the bore and groupn cars totally different size.Also dont think als can do much for the wadding in normal exhausts etc.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Bugsy,
Thanks for the info, very useful, particularly the part about using it to fend off muppets, I like :D

On the turbo, I think I may give it a go with the standard as I really don't expect to give the ALS too much abuse at all, if it did damage to the turbo would I be right to assume I could then just change the damaged turbo to something more suitable or should I expect damage elsewhere too? What sort of damage should I expect, I'm guessing just the compressor fins (is that the right term?) if this is the case could I just buy a direct titanium replacement for this if they get damaged?

As for exhausts I was planning on buying the blitz too (straighter route makes sense to me) along with de-cat and down pipe, but now you bring up the group A exhausts I might look into them before I decide (again), do you have any more info and/or contacts at Ears or btr? what's the setup on the group A exhausts, full exhaust, bore, de-cat (I presume), down pipe etc?

Thanks for the info

Ryan
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ryan,
Another way of setting up antilag is to run a programmable ECU that activates the antilag when the secondary air valve opens. This valve only opens when running hard and dumps extra air into the exhaust manifold. In this way, all the ECU needs to do is inject extra fuel and retard the ignition when it senses the SAS valve is open and it doesn't need to run on a trailing throttle to add the air required for combustion.

Doing it this way will mean that you can't be tempted to switch it on when you're not running hard and risk the extra problems with the exhaust and turbo.... which might be a good thing ;)

As far as the intrernals go, you're not putting any extra strain on them because the combustion is taking place in the exhaust manifold and not in the cylinders therefore the main extra stress is on the exhaust and turbo.

Hope this helps

Andy
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Andy

Not sure about this approach. There are some who run hard most of the time and that would mean the ALS working most of the time! I would rather be able to switch it, just to be safe.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Simon,
You could run a combination of both to be certain. The secondary air system can be used to provide the air required for combustion on the ALS and it's converted on the road cars to help out with emissions because the ECU doesn't retard the timing and add the extra fuel for true ALS. It only activates after 3 seconds of full throttle and with the engine revs still above 4000rpm but I'm sure that with a programmable ECU you could change the settings to provide the opening of the system when you wanted.
Bugsy, is this the method that is used on the RS450 or does it run on a partially open throttle to provide the extra air required for the ALS?

You could still install a switch to run without ALS if you want to but I think that the best way of setting it up for when you do want it is to run it in parallel with the secondary air system.

Andy
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Nice Idea Andy and I think that it could still be switchable, I like the idea as it shouldn't cause any problems with pistons etc, a few questions though

1. What rev range is the SAS value normally open in?
2. Isn't ALS most effective below 4k revs?
3. On a Standard ALS setup does the ALS disengage automatically over say 4k rev (by this time the turbo should have spun up(?)) - implications at gear change? (hmm I think I just answered this myself, I guess it continues)
4. Is there a trade off here between directing drive to the wheel and drive to the turbo - once the turbo is up to speed is there any point keeping the ALS engaged or would the effort be better directed towards the wheels?


Thanks
Ryan
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ryan,
The reason the ALS is used is to keep the turbo spinning in between gear changes meaning that you don't loose the boost when you close the accelerator and stop the turbo spinning (see Bugsy's post above). Therefore it is best used at higher revs to keep the boost up when pushing hard. The other way it can be used (if setup with a switch only) is you can blip the throttle from idle and use the ALS to generate boost in the intake which is avaiable when you next bury the throttle. Apparently this is a very good way to get the car to rocket from a standing start as you've got boost pressure available from low revs.

In answer to your questions:
1. The SAS valve only opens after 3 seconds of full throttle with the engine revs still above 4000rpm
2. See above for the explanation of the possibility for below 4k revs
3. The ALS only operates when you lift off the throttle. It is not on permanently. See above for implications at gear change which is why ALS is used.
4. Like above, the ALS isn't on permanently and only operates on a closed throttle so you don't direct anything away from the wheels.

Hope this helps

Andy
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Andy,
Thanks, I think its all now clear in my dim mind, really appreciate the time taken by all to explain this to a newbie :)

Thanks
Ryan
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
sorry guys
but to be truthful anti lag is not ideal for EVO VI road cars. you will loose the vacuum pressure to your brakes with in few yard making it very difficult to brake !!!!!!! so you find your self only switching it on to scare people away :D

just ask any garage that prepare group N EVOs

there is a way around it though

sam
 
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