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Discussion Starter #1
My engine will need a full rebuild
While this is being done, any suggestions on what to have replaced while I am at it, I am considering the RC Stage 4 package, but at the moment considering NOT to have the turbo conversion kit or a replacement ECU (which is recomended)

I am looking to have the other parts done...... but can I, in other words is I have the following done, would I have to have the Turbo and ECU done at the same time or can I wait for a later date?

The list would be as follows:
JE Forged Pistons
Arrow Forged Conrod Kit
HKS Metal Head Gasket
RC Blue Printed 640cc Fuel Injectors
Reclaibration of Apexi Fuel Air Mixture and Apexi Boost Controller
HKS High Lift Cams
HKS Heavy Duty Valve Springs Kit
ARP Head Stud Kit
ARP Rod Bolt Kit
Stainless Tubular Manifold

Also is there anything that anyone feels should also be done at the same time like an oil cooler, I realise that I will need an uprated organic clutch, but am alittle worried about drivability.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
ant,

you really have to think about what exactly you want before you spend huge amounts of dough. I would assume that you still want to use the car every day? why dont you want the turbo and ecu? is it cash? if so i would talk to rc about where the money is better spent I would expect that all those mods add up to big bhp so will u have to start replacing other bits that then become restrictive, i would chat to Blade get his opinion.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Rob,

The bits I have listed are the bits that I may as well have done now while the engine is in the state it is, the money side of things for that would not be an issue, as most of the engine has been taken to bits, and things have to be replaced in any case, I would like to leave it open that IF I decide to go a little mad then the final 2 bits (the most expensive) being the turbo and the ECU replacment can be done at a later date, without the engine needing to be stripped down again, saving costs.

The price for the Turbo upgrade and ECU, is pretty heafty, as as I have just paid for the new wheels and tyres this month, I would have my bank manager on my back reminding me that I bank with them, not them with me!

Would be interested in Blades comments on the matter as well
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Good point Lightspeed, I see that their tubo conversion includes the manifold. So we'll take that off.

I am assume that I can run all the other stuff without any problems then?
 
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Discussion Starter #6
i think i read one of yellow 5's threads somewhere that a HKS manifild gives a massive increase in power with the standard turbo (need to check).

As i know jack about tuning im probably talking out of my arse, but with all those mods will the ecu need to be remapped to suit the new charactoristics so perhaps a mappable ecu would be good this will then be adjustable to whatever u choose in the future?

what ecu does the 340 set up use is it still standard?
 
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Discussion Starter #7
The 340 uses the standard ECU, the Apexi's are piggy backed onto it, with the mods at stage 4 of 440bhp, it will need a new ecu, either Apexi or Motec, but ALL that dosh!! - thats why I would like to see if I can do that part later.

Sensible thing seems to be to do all the mods except turbo etc, and see how I like it, i suppose, at least the internals are done and makes it pretty easy to add further mods to it
 
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Discussion Starter #8
start messing with cam profiles and you will completely change how the car drives..i.e the car will not come on cam until higher up the rev range, i would think this would create more lag? (could be wrong) so would a bigger turbo so the need may be for action to overcome this. anti lag ecu maybe? i cant get out of my head that you are willing to do such big mods without putting the icing on the cake virtually making it pointless!

I would probably sell it and buy an austin princess(vanden plas of course)
 
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Discussion Starter #9
AntsEvo, do you want to come and try out my car? Can be arranged...

Personally, I would go for the Jun 2.2 conversion. Won't cost much more than new internals anyway (which are a must really if you need to rebuild and intend to go for high power). Later on, fit a bigger turbo. With the 2.2, you can look at something like the TD67-25g. Fit a Motec or Gems when you get the turbo (that whole lot will probably cost about £8k). First iteration at 2.2, with standard turbo, will give you around the 380bhp mark (turbo being the restrictive part), but loads of torque. Wouldn't be surprised if you had 380lb/ft (this assumes about 1.6-1.7 bar). Second time round, with the new turbo, ECU and injectors, anything up to 600bhp is easily possible.

I didn't go for 2.2 as it was too early in development when I started, and doesn't quite fit the bill for me (didn't want a long stroke engine) - but for a car used mostly on road, it would be brilliant.

Don't bother with the manifold if you intend changing turbos later, as the turbo kits come with their own manifolds (as well as external wastegates, downpipes etc.)
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Robert, you are sort of right with your comments. Increase the boost, and you will need to decrease the compression ratio, which will make off-boost performance worse. Change cams (more aggressive) and you change where the power band occurs in the car. Neither of these increase lag - but do make the car feel more lethargic until the turbo is spinning (or the engine is on cam).

The 2.2 conversion helps here. The increased capacity will offset the cams and the increased compression ratio, and when a bigger turbo is put on, it will offset the increased lag that undoubtedly will have. I believe the Jun engine includes cams, pistons, crank, lighter flywheel, followers, valves etc.

Norris Designs in the UK is building these, but it should be straight forward for any engine builder to do this.

RC offer a 2.3 conversion from some other Jap outfit, but JUN really are the best IMHO.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Ah Blade, excellent, thanks for that!!

Would certainly love a try in yours!! I must be one of the only people who have not seen it yet! Although my car is currently with RC, and I am unlikely to get it back until all the work is done anyway!

The one thing that you may not have added into your calculations, is that a lot of work to the car will be done under warranty, therefore I would be cheaper for me to replace the parts with upgraded items and pay the difference...cheating really I know!

So fitting a Jun conversion would be nice, but unpracticable (cost wise) for me, the turbo and manifold conversion would be about £2900 and the ecu would be £1000 odd for the Apexi and double that or so for Gems or Motec - which would be an easy add on at a later date, if needed.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
changing the cams does not change the drivability of the car
IF you know how to dial them in correctly !
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Changing to 272i and 264e cams has proven to give jsut over 30bhp on an evo !!!

I have driven an evo5 with this setup and the car does take another 400-500revs before
pulling hard; this could be a pain on twisty lanes. However, as Pisces says, dial them in
correctly, add more ignition advance off boost and id bet you could get back most
of the power lost at low revs. Cams will be my very next mod, sooner rather than
later I hope.

Justin
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Agree about the cams.

Claudius, of all the kits available, it is the JUN that appears to be used the most worldwide. Lots of others produce kits (e.g. Toda). JUN have a very good reputation for quality. I guess at the end of the day, they will be similar.

Don't like the idea of the 2.3 kits as they must leave the block walls quite thin.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Right, it looks like I can't really go wrong with those mods, so iI think thats what i'll have done, at least it gives me room for manouver if I want to move the power upto over 400bhp, although the clutch will probably have to be uprated soon.

Thanks for all the advice on this!

Blade....where's that demo drive!!
 
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Discussion Starter #17
if you are doing all that, why keep the apexi stuff, as they are only realy a fudge to get more out of the standard ecu.
according to a lot of people i have reached the end of the usefulness of the sports ecu and are no where near the 440 mark, if you havent got the knowledge to play with the gems/motec etc (which i know i would not have a igloo), there is a lot of good reports about the PE remap at the moment.

lee
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Lee, it just makes sense to me, moneywise, to have everything done as listed, and then when I'm ready do the ECU/turbo/mainfold, if I feel it necessary (which as everyone knows there seems to be no end to tuning once you have started.)

Remember I've just forked out nearly £3000 for new tyres and wheels, so the money spent on this car is getting a little out of control!

So its best for me to get this lot done first and have a little break from it all, then decide what needs doing next, there's still god knows how much to spend on AP/Movit brakes yet!!
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Lee,I like fudge,its good for 375bhp which on the 25th Feb will be the state of tune on my car,lets call it chocolate fudge ...YUMMY:)
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Antsevo
As someone looking with a completely fresh view of things, i would get R.C. to fix the car as it was before and use it as it is. Just reading the above it sounds to me that this tuning bug has taken over your life. I would personally save all that money and use your 340 bhp to its limit. You already have a very fast car that would trounce 99% of the motoring world down any given road. Also after all the tuning work it might become very hard to sell, with people being very wary of all the work thats been done.If and when the Evo 8 arrives you will just have to have one if it is a real leap forward in performance and looks. and if you are struggling to sell the Evo 7 you will be kicking yourself and probably let it go for less than its worth. Dont get me wrong im not knocking tuning at all [ my tme has air filter, exhaust, dump valve ] im trying to say that there is a sensible limit, after all these cars are so fast down country lanes that its sometimes difficult to keep a good eye, hand, foot and steering co ordination to keep yourself from burying it in the hedge. This is just my personal view and i know all the above might not apply to you if you are building a track car, but it is just a another view. Regards SIMON.
 
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