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Old 08-01-2019, 18:12   #16
Nikos!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiro View Post
Provided that the ECU SST torque tables are correct then you shouldn't see slip with the correct version of the SST firmware as it should calculate the required pressure based on the torque demand from the ECU. Certainly if your box is slipping with stage 1 power you've probably got other issues with the SST unit itself or the map in the ECU.

If you weren't able to do the teach-in chances are you have a 2008 SST unit as I believe all the 2009 firmwares allow teach-in by default.

Mitsu patched the cold start out of all firmwares in 2014 (or earlier) as per my earlier post so provided you have the latest version of each of them then you won't get the mechanical start up noise on any of them (see the TSB here). You were only getting them as your car was still on the original firmware for the 2008 SST unit rather than the updated 2008 version they have available now.

The increased pressure you are seeing is an example of what I mentioned earlier in the thread (i.e. the 2011+ SST has a different physical design than the 2008 unit) and it's not necessarily a good thing. For example if the pressure is consistently higher then it may cause clutch dragging, side effects with the mechatronic operation or simply rob the engine of power for no benefit.
Well, this is the thing that exactly same torque tables at ECU were able to produce higher pressure with the newer f/w.

SST isn't slipping anymore after update & teach-in.

But it's not only the update that is important, but the teach-in as well.
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Old 08-01-2019, 22:19   #17
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Yes I certainly agree the teach in makes the biggest difference - there is though I believe a common misconception about the different firmwares in that many people seem to assume that the 2011+ firmware is the latest and therefore the best. However Mitsu re-issued a new version of all three firmwares (2008, 2009/10, 2011+) as part of the TSB above so provided you use the latest files they are all actually the same age. Which begs the question if it was the case that the 2011+ firmware is the best and suitable for all three versions of the SST why wouldn't they just update that one for the TSB and tell everyone to use it?
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Old 09-01-2019, 05:28   #18
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Yes I certainly agree the teach in makes the biggest difference - there is though I believe a common misconception about the different firmwares in that many people seem to assume that the 2011+ firmware is the latest and therefore the best. However Mitsu re-issued a new version of all three firmwares (2008, 2009/10, 2011+) as part of the TSB above so provided you use the latest files they are all actually the same age. Which begs the question if it was the case that the 2011+ firmware is the best and suitable for all three versions of the SST why wouldn't they just update that one for the TSB and tell everyone to use it?
This is a good question but at least judging from my case they would only update to the year my car is and not later.





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Old 07-03-2019, 16:24   #19
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Is it possible to reprogram my 2014 SST to an earlier version of the TCU Software? as I am experiencing a very strange and hard to diagnose issue with my Gearbox, that I can only think to be Software related.
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Old 08-03-2019, 12:09   #20
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You can apply any version of the SST firmware to any version of the SST box as there is no restriction in the TCU or the PassThruCAN software.

I would suggest if you are having issues with the gearbox that you try doing a teach-in first, and/or move to the latest version of firmware for the 2014 SST, before you try older versions. Ultimately I suspect if the 2014 firmware which is optimised for your gearbox isn't working it's unlikely that old firmware will improve your situation.
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:20   #21
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Originally Posted by Sephiro View Post
You can apply any version of the SST firmware to any version of the SST box as there is no restriction in the TCU or the PassThruCAN software.

I would suggest if you are having issues with the gearbox that you try doing a teach-in first, and/or move to the latest version of firmware for the 2014 SST, before you try older versions. Ultimately I suspect if the 2014 firmware which is optimised for your gearbox isn't working it's unlikely that old firmware will improve your situation.
Thank you for taking the time to read and reply to my post!

My Car has only covered 16,000 miles and I’ve been experiencing some strange, what I can only describe as jerking and from the transmission, the transmission/Car will jerk/jolt momentarily. This is sometimes minimal, with only a slight jolt being felt inside the Car, other times being an extremely violent jolt, equivalent to jabbing the brake pedal for a second. It doesn't happen when shifting and only under the below conditions, the effect can be extremely harsh at times.

My observations are that it doesn't do it at all in Auto (All Three Modes) only Manual and most noticeable in S-Sport. I have also noticed that it is mainly on overrun/maintaining speed, for example when following slow moving traffic and when lightly tipping in and out of the throttle at lower speeds/rpm, potentially when the transmission is preparing a lower gear, I have also noticed it will only do it when within an even Gear, 2nd or 4th, I would imagine 6th also but difficult to test. It only presents the issue when everything is up to temperature and been running for some time.

I have PassThruCan and Performing a teach-in resolves the issue for a short while although it soon starts doing it again after a couple of trips.

The reason I mentioned trying the earlier Software as per my previous post, is that it almost seems like a software issue? As it doesn’t do it at all in auto mode as mentioned above and also the fact that a teach-in helps momentarily. Also, the fact that it doesn’t do it at all until you have been driving around for a while and everything is hot/up to temperature, makes me think it could possible be related to the Oil. My Mitsubishi Service/Maintenance book recommends using Millermatic ATF DCT-DSG for my Car, which I find quite surprising in all honesty. The Oil is only £42 for 5 litres compared with £30-37 per litre for Diaqueen SSTF-1. Do you think it would be worth trying the SSTF-1 Oil that is recommended for every other TC-SST Evo X?

There haven’t been any error codes at all from the TCU/transmission and everything else is completely normal.

Any help/suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Last edited by Bad_Lad; 10-03-2019 at 10:25..
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:33   #22
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Is this a 440, so with the uprated clutches and map? If so have you tried speaking to Indigo-gt? I would be tempted to ask indigo's opinion on the oil too. Another thing, though unlikely, is to check the dump valve if you have anything aftermarket, as they can give all sorts of strange symptoms, standard often being far more reliable

Have you tried searching on evoXforums too? The fact its on even gears only to me implies a mechanical issue within the gearbox, but, I dont know anywhere near enough to even suggest that

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Old 10-03-2019, 13:21   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Lad View Post

I have also noticed it will only do it when within an even Gear, 2nd or 4th, I would imagine 6th also but difficult to test.

My Mitsubishi Service/Maintenance book recommends using Millermatic ATF DCT-DSG for my Car, which I find quite surprising in all honesty. The Oil is only £42 for 5 litres compared with £30-37 per litre for Diaqueen SSTF-1. Do you think it would be worth trying the SSTF-1 Oil that is recommended for every other TC-SST Evo X?
This may not be the issue with your box, but the OEM plastic type 24 fork magnet (which affects 2nd and 4th gear selection) can be problematic. If it is this, there is a fix, but it's a full box open and install a Dodson 24 magnet.....but this must be done with extra precaution.....not simply as Dodson state in their instructions.

Re SST box oils, Fuchs DCTF or Castrol Transmax Dual.
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Old 10-03-2019, 23:40   #24
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The symptoms you describe certainly are strange. I remember reading in the service manual that box is designed to give slightly more abrupt gear changes in manual than automatic mode to give the driver more feedback, however from what you are describing here that shouldn't come in to it as you aren't even changing gear.

When you did the teach-in was the gearbox oil definitely up to temperature and did you do the full mechatronic replacement teach-in or the shorter clutch pack change only version?

If the gearbox oil was up to temp and you did the full teach-in then my guess would be that it's either a sticky solenoid on the mechatronic unit or a problem with the shift fork sensor as Nigel mentioned.

IGT used Fuchs Titan DCTF in mine when the box was rebuilt several years ago and I haven't had any problems since so you don't need to use the OEM SSTF-1 if you decide to change it. I'd also recommend changing the external SST oil filter if you are changing the oil.
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:39   #25
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Is the car running an unmolested OE engine map?
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:08   #26
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Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post, sorry for the delay in writing back, I have been unfortunately without the Internet for a number of days due to issues with BT

Quote:
Originally Posted by stu8 View Post
Is this a 440, so with the uprated clutches and map? If so have you tried speaking to Indigo-gt? I would be tempted to ask indigo's opinion on the oil too. Another thing, though unlikely, is to check the dump valve if you have anything aftermarket, as they can give all sorts of strange symptoms, standard often being far more reliable

Have you tried searching on evoXforums too? The fact its on even gears only to me implies a mechanical issue within the gearbox, but, I dont know anywhere near enough to even suggest that

Stu
The Car is indeed a 440, I have tried speaking to Indigo and trawled the net/forums to no avail unfortunately. The Car has the Standard OEM Dump valve fitted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelS View Post
This may not be the issue with your box, but the OEM plastic type 24 fork magnet (which affects 2nd and 4th gear selection) can be problematic. If it is this, there is a fix, but it's a full box open and install a Dodson 24 magnet.....but this must be done with extra precaution.....not simply as Dodson state in their instructions.

Re SST box oils, Fuchs DCTF or Castrol Transmax Dual.
I am beginning to think that it is indeed possibly related to this as it is one of the only things/suggestions that makes any sense, however how is manual mode any different to Auto mode in terms of how it works mechanically? The Gearbox works flawlessly in Auto mode whilst under the same conditions. Surely if Shift fork 4 is faulty as it could possibly be, it would also affect Auto mode, alike Manual under the same conditions. I am just trying to understand here not contradict your suggestion. I also read this morning on one forum I happened to come across, the following statement, I don’t know how true/factual it may be: -

“4 ) I would be very surprised if an oil change has caused this issue, the reason being is that 90% of the boxes with a broken sensor I see,
have all had clamping forces of the clutches ramped up by 'tuners' who are unaware of the shared line pressure.

5 ) Ramping of the line pressure to makes the clutches hold tighter, inadvertently increases the speed at which the shift fork moves.
How do I know this??..... I have the oil flow diagrams
Think of it like this, you can close a door with a window all day long and not incur any issues, SLAM that door and you may just break that window.”

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The symptoms you describe certainly are strange. I remember reading in the service manual that box is designed to give slightly more abrupt gear changes in manual than automatic mode to give the driver more feedback, however from what you are describing here that shouldn't come in to it as you aren't even changing gear.

When you did the teach-in was the gearbox oil definitely up to temperature and did you do the full mechatronic replacement teach-in or the shorter clutch pack change only version?

If the gearbox oil was up to temp and you did the full teach-in then my guess would be that it's either a sticky solenoid on the mechatronic unit or a problem with the shift fork sensor as Nigel mentioned.

IGT used Fuchs Titan DCTF in mine when the box was rebuilt several years ago and I haven't had any problems since so you don't need to use the OEM SSTF-1 if you decide to change it. I'd also recommend changing the external SST oil filter if you are changing the oil.
I performed the teach-in with the Oil temperature within the thresholds outlined by the manual (40°C to 80°C / 104°F to 176°F), as it doesn't seem to exhibit the issues until I have been driving it hard, I may take my Laptop out with me tonight and try performing a full teach-in (Mechatronic replacement) when the gearbox is at its worse, exhibiting the issue to the point were it is hash/violent and the Oil is going to be potentially hotter than outlined above. The 440 has the Dodson heated Sump pan kit which may have some influence on temperatures as it has engine coolant circulating through it, this obviously is a cooling solution also. Strangely, both types of teach-in seem to remedy the issue momentarily, I am unsure why this is the case? I can understand with the full (Mechatronic replacement) teach-in procedure but not the Clutch pack replacement.

I changed the Oil at the weekend to the OEM SSTF-1 and also washed out the external Dodson large capacity Oil filter that the 440 has. I performed a teach-in and everything seemed fine, I thought that maybe by a miracle the OEM Oil had solved the issue, however after driving it Sunday, putting it away and then taking it out again yesterday after work. The issue returned after driving it hard down some country lanes

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Is the car running an unmolested OE engine map?
The Car is running the OEM 440 MAP from Indigo, this however will obviously be different to a normal X
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Old 13-03-2019, 00:18   #27
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I was curious whether it was the full teach in as that obviously includes the shift fork teach in which obviously moves them to their full extents numerous times which could potentially free them up for a while if the mechatronic solenoids where sticking. I'm assuming that the clutch teach in procedure also moves them to select a gear to slip the clutch, however I would have thought that would be similar to a normal shift when driving so as you say it's odd that this also temporarily resolves the issue.

Either the shift fork sensor issue or the solenoid sticking are the only things I can think of that would cause violent behaviour as you've described from a hardware point of view (the other common SST issues are seal failure which results in slip/rev flare or damper failure which wouldn't benefit from a teach in so we should be able to rule those out). Software wise it could be a faulty TCU or a random bad/high torque demand being sent from the ECU, however those seem unlikely as again I wouldn't expect a teach in to temporarily cure those.
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Old 13-03-2019, 08:24   #28
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Can you elaborate on

……..I have tried speaking to Indigo and trawled the net/forums to no avail unfortunately.....


Won't they speak to you, or are they not willing/able to help you?


For what it's worth, I'd put money on it being a mapping problem.
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Old 13-03-2019, 12:40   #29
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Can you elaborate on

……..I have tried speaking to Indigo and trawled the net/forums to no avail unfortunately.....


Won't they speak to you, or are they not willing/able to help you?


For what it's worth, I'd put money on it being a mapping problem.
I have contacted Ant this morning and he informs me that all of the TCU tables are OEM and that he works on getting the load calculation perfect so that the gearbox clamps correctly.

I am interested to know if the issue is indeed related to mapping, would a teach-in have any affect on this, as in momentarily prevent the error in the mapping from causing the issue I am experiencing.
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Old 13-03-2019, 12:45   #30
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Out of curiosity, why you would suspect the OEM map when it's been running the same map without an issue for the previous 16,000 miles?
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