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Old 12-12-2001, 17:38   #16
Heave Ho Six
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Oli Goon,
Right here it is in glorious Technicolor:



It is a very sneaky system!
It took me a while to work it out and even then I wasn't sure (thanks Paul for checking it )

Yes that is right, the centre diff viscous coupling is next to the front diff, I said it was sneaky!
Have a look at page 22B-46 of the E4/5 workshop manual (Centre diff).
Item 7 and amp; 5 are the green bit in the centre diff of the diagram above.
Item 13 is the blue bit in the centre diff of the diagram above.

Now look at page 22B-13 of the same manual (Transmission diagram).
You can see the the 2 splined shafts sticking out of the gearbox case where the transfer box will connect onto them.

Page 22A-8 item 17 is the Output shaft that passes through the middle of the 2 splined shafts and connects to the front diff (yellow bit on the diagram above).

The viscous coupling although next to the front diff does actually control the centre diff (green and blue are either side of the viscous coupling).

Phew! Brain overload and meltdown!
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Old 13-12-2001, 11:27   #17
oli goon
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

hh and amp; GSRred, you are truly a top techno goons.

As you say a sneaky system with the centre viscous coupling next to the front diff. The more you look at it the more cunning you realise it is. Must make the front diff a pig to get at as its enclosed by the drive to the rear axle.

Ta very much.
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Old 15-12-2001, 16:31   #18
dutchEVO6
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

The repair has been performed today.I had all four bolts in my diff mounted but NONE of them were in one piece,ALL were broken !
I replaced them with 4 M8 30 MM bolts ,class 10.9.
On the original bolts no classification is showed ,so if they are made of a good grade?? I doubt it.
Repair itself is not extremely difficult,but for the first time it is a bit of a puzzle.Had no complications.Did the testdirve and the car drives and sounds perfect again.
I will try to post some pics of the broken bits ,so for those of you who have never seen it you know how it looks.
One happy EVOman
Chris
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Old 15-12-2001, 17:29   #19
dutchEVO6
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?



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Old 15-12-2001, 19:59   #20
RichiWW
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

So just how hard was the repair?? ... was it just a case of dismantle and reassemble with new bolts?? I notice that you had the help of a qualified mechanic, i spose that helps How long did the job take?

Rich.
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Old 15-12-2001, 20:09   #21
Heave Ho Six
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Chris,
Thanks for the info, it really helps to see it in the flesh so to speak. Glad you got it sorted.
I was told the bolts in my LSD had come loose and were not broken but it is equally common for them to break. If one bolt does break then the others soon follow due to the increased stress the others have to take. I think the original bolts are of the correct grade but I believe the problem lies in the fact that they are of too small diameter (a Rally Prep companies opinion), basically the design is not ideal (alegedly) but there is not enough space to fit larger items. Tack welding the countersunk end in place will stop them coming loose but won't cure the breaking, fitting high tensile items (10,9) like you have (and was done on mine) should hopefully prevent it happening in the future.
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Old 15-12-2001, 20:21   #22
Heave Ho Six
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

RichWW,
The repair should only take half a day depending if any problems were encountered (e.g. removing the broken bolts). The only specialist tool you need is a slidehammer to remove the output shaft to the LH driveshaft.
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Old 15-12-2001, 20:38   #23
dutchEVO6
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Rich,
repair took about 4 hours ,we did it nice and slow ,it was the first time.
It can be done yourself ,but you need two persons and good tools ,otherwise it will be quite a job to do.
But the car feels like new again!
Bye chris
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Old 16-12-2001, 10:24   #24
RichiWW
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Cheers guys, i`ve got the same problem with my Evo6.

Bought her 5 days ago, didnt hear anything on the test drive, upon turning into my road after buying her i heard two knocks, thought wonder what that could be .........500 miles on and it knocks everytime i turn the steering Been to my local dealership, who have clarified it is the bolts that that have snapped, they are now waiting to hear back from Ralliart for permission to do the work under warranty.Should know Monday, though i am wondering what the orginal bolts were, surely they have to be high tensile in such a stressed position as the diff??

If for some reason they refuse to do the work then me and my m8 will be doing the job ourselves (he`s a mechanic with access to ramp etc.) Will let you knwo how i get on

Rich.
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Old 16-12-2001, 10:46   #25
RichiWW
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Ooops, forgot to mention the dealer told me to take the car home, and that i could still use it, but not to its full potential.What you guys think? ....would this cause swarf or anything else possibly buggering up sommat else inside the box??. Car has been in my garage since Thursday, as i`m very wary to drive her more than necessary, but she`s all polished up and i`m raring to go out for a spin!!

Rich.
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Old 16-12-2001, 13:03   #26
Heave Ho Six
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Rich,
Don't worry you can still drive it. It is VERY unlikely that any damage can be caused as I was told the broken bolt heads will just sit in the viscous coupling assembly, it is slightly possible that they can wedge against the case and damage it but I think it is unlikely unless driven for a very long time like it. It could be the case that your bolts have just come loose and are not broken. Generally just drive as you would normally but don't go for any high speed tight cornering like it and try to keep low speed tight cornering to a minimum.
You will only get the noise on full lock or near full lock as that is when the torque transfer is the greatest in the LSD. The design of the helical LSD means that it's continously trying to force the case apart when the torque transfer occurs, the clunking noise is the diff case moving apart and coming back together again as the securing bolts have either come loose or broken. You will find once one bolt breaks the others soon follow due to the increased stress the remaining bolts have to take.
The original bolts would be high tensile but I don't know the exact grade, grade 12.9 is ideal for a replacement. The trouble with the original is that they are only M8's which is not exactly ideal, however there is not enough room in the design to fit anything larger.

I will forward you the details that I sent Chris about the repair so at least you know what to expect. Have a look at this for more details of my experience of it.

Oh and welcome to the front LSD club
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Old 16-12-2001, 17:06   #27
RichiWW
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Great stuff, thanks

One question though, membership to the Front LSD Club, now does this include a free membership pack, and if so do i also get member discounts??

Will let you know how i get on tomorrow reguarding the warranty claim

Rich.
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Old 16-12-2001, 19:26   #28
dutchEVO6
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

Richi,
The membership includes trackdays on a special track with no sharp bends,and for the Llsd type of cars only right corners and rlsd types left corners only.
Also familydays with lots of slow driving are on the program.
Stickers with type RC ,LC or BSC (both sides clunk) are available.
More idea's are welcome.
But how many members do we have?
BYe chris
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Old 16-12-2001, 19:59   #29
Heave Ho Six
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

But once a member of the LSD club and it's repaired you have to give membership to the understeer club, can't say I have even experience major understeer (twice probably in 13k miles) that other people have reported
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Old 17-12-2001, 12:33   #30
oli goon
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Re:Help wanted,front diff failure?

hh6, being a greedy bastart and never being satisfied I was wondering how the centre diff works on the E7? I was trying to work out how it might operate whilst using a smilar setup to the E6, but even if you managed to change the level of slip in the viscous coupling, you still wouldn't be transferring the drive to the front or the back just varying the amount they could slip relative to one another. Any ideas?

Dutch, nice pics, its a shame that the workshop manual doesn't have more detail like this. Good that you got it sorted relatively easily.
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