Nitron or ohlins road and track - Page 3 - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum
 
 

Go Back   Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum > Technical > Suspension / Handling

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-12-2019, 07:39   #31
plip1953
Phil
 
plip1953's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West Yorkshire
Car: Evo X RS
My Car
Posts: 10,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivew View Post
Donít fall for the marketing, KW ĎClubsportí for the Evo is basically V3 with firmer springs.
Clive - can you elaborate on and substantiate this somewhat sweeping claim please?
__________________
Phil
plip1953 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 18-12-2019, 12:30   #32
leeslancer8
Senior User
 
leeslancer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Car: EVO 8 260 - EVO 7 RSII - EVO 8 FQ320 MR - EVO 4 GSR
Posts: 3,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivew View Post
Iíve used KW 3 for years on road and track cars, and they are a great set-up for the price. I usually use 9/9 spring rates which are a good compromise for road and track. My best mate has an E6 trackcar which I built, and with 9/9 on V3 and DZ03G semiís with the damping adjusted correctly, itís superb on track. Donít fall for the marketing, KW ĎClubsportí for the Evo is basically V3 with firmer springs.

I used Ohlins DFV on my daily driver Bmw, for years and 60k+ miles, and they were still working superbly when I recently sold the car. They are brilliant for the road, and as standard biased that way in regards to spring rates.

Also take into account, if you donít know how to set-up 2 way dampers, you may end up with worse performance even with higher quality track biased suspension. Setting up for your specific car and driving style is paramount to driving fast. For most people 1 way suspension is much easier to dial in.
Clive totally get what your saying regards the setup hence why I want something decent yet fairly basic to adjust and setup etc. I will likely take advice from my tuner, I may get him over to a trackday to help with the setup.

I know this is only based on one circuit but would be better than me just trying blindly. At the present like I said the car oversteers quite badly but is quite predictable however I think a slightly more neutral setup would give me the confidence to push on more. I am also thinking of upping the tyre width at the same time to help with grip levels I currently only run 225ís.

If you had 3k to spend what would you recommend for ease of setup, reliability etc

Cheers lee
leeslancer8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2019, 18:57   #33
plip1953
Phil
 
plip1953's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West Yorkshire
Car: Evo X RS
My Car
Posts: 10,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeslancer8 View Post
Clive totally get what your saying regards the setup hence why I want something decent yet fairly basic to adjust and setup etc. I will likely take advice from my tuner, I may get him over to a trackday to help with the setup.

I know this is only based on one circuit but would be better than me just trying blindly. At the present like I said the car oversteers quite badly but is quite predictable however I think a slightly more neutral setup would give me the confidence to push on more. I am also thinking of upping the tyre width at the same time to help with grip levels I currently only run 225’s.

If you had 3k to spend what would you recommend for ease of setup, reliability etc

Cheers lee
I’m sure there are loads of Evo owners that would give their right arm to trade their understeer for your oversteer!

On an Evo in particular, dealing with any kind of oversteer really should be simple enough to sort out.

The first step is to know and understand your geometry settings. I’ll assume you have a rear neg camber setting in the minus 1.5-2.0 degrees range. If not then change it! And then, crucially, set your toe setting at parallel. If it’s already parallel and you still get really bad oversteer then go for a small amount of toe in. But on no account should you dial in tow out.

Get out on track and then see how it is. And if oversteer persists you then still have several relatively easy things you can try. For example,try reducing your rear tyre pressures (28 hot is about as low as you should reasonably go). Next in terms of ease of effort would be to soften the rear damping (if you have adjustment?). Another measure might be put your rear arb on a softer setting (if it is adjustable?).
__________________
Phil

Last edited by plip1953; 18-12-2019 at 20:08..
plip1953 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2019, 20:25   #34
leeslancer8
Senior User
 
leeslancer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Car: EVO 8 260 - EVO 7 RSII - EVO 8 FQ320 MR - EVO 4 GSR
Posts: 3,079
Thanks Phil you know my car it’s mikes old one. Just had a lot of love and money since.

Cpp set the car up at -1.1 with bang on parallel toe. Tyre pressures I usually go for 30 all round hot. I will set the rear softer and maybe change the rear arb to the softest setting. It’s currently on the medium setting. I do however run a larger Cusco front arb.
leeslancer8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2019, 23:01   #35
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
Clive - can you elaborate on and substantiate this somewhat sweeping claim please?
Sweeping claim? lol

Have a look at the KW website, all the info is there to substantiate what I said.

Both the V3 and Clubsport 2 way dampers use the same tech, but the Clubsports have spherical bearing top mounts, firmer springs and a slightly higher damping range, and are approx £1000 more. i.e. stiffer V3ís.

Itís only when you buy the competition units that you get higher quality damping design, a choice of damper body material (steel, stainless or aluminium) and specific valving and spring rates tailored to your car.

For normal trackdays, the V3 with slightly firmer rear springs is quite adequate. If youíre running a race car with slicks and aero, then youíll want proper competition dampers anyway, not Clubsport which is still aimed at people with road cars.

Iíve fitted, set-up and driven on track, (inc the Ďring) E6 and E9 running semi-slicks, on V3 with different spring rates, and they were spot-on. Even with the firmer springs, I still had plenty of rebound damping adjustment in reserve.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Clivew For This Useful Post:
6evo (27-12-2019)
Old 19-12-2019, 16:04   #36
Arronevo8
Senior User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N/ireland ballykelly
Car: Std vi imported january 12 mint and very nice in white
My Car
Posts: 3,780
I run club sport on my vi Great.
Arronevo8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2019, 21:21   #37
Shakey_Jake188
Senior User
 
Shakey_Jake188's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: County Durham
Car: BRSCC Mazda mx5 Race Car #188, Evo 6 Tommi Makinen Edition and Evo 5 GSR
Posts: 1,087
Ohlins are too soft for track and have too much body roll but are great on the road. Even with the stiffer springs they are too soft as they are valved softly for ride comfort on the road. Nitrons are amazing on track, the one ways sound like what you want and still have a lot of adjustment range but no doubt they will swallow your £3000 budget! I'd ring nitron and tell them what you have wrote in this thread and thell give you the correct spring rates and valving to suit. Another option (which is the sensible one) even something like the meister r clubrace for £1000 will be a huge upgrade over your current old jap suspension which by the sounds of it, they may be the problem of your oversteer! Evos are notorious understeery! I've had a go of a few cars with meisters and been impressed with how they drive.
__________________
600bhp+++ Evo 6 TME Road & Sprint Beast

https://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=535560
Shakey_Jake188 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Shakey_Jake188 For This Useful Post:
Clivew (20-12-2019), leeslancer8 (20-12-2019), plip1953 (20-12-2019)
Old 20-12-2019, 10:05   #38
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeslancer8 View Post
Clive totally get what your saying regards the setup hence why I want something decent yet fairly basic to adjust and setup etc. I will likely take advice from my tuner, I may get him over to a trackday to help with the setup.

I know this is only based on one circuit but would be better than me just trying blindly. At the present like I said the car oversteers quite badly but is quite predictable however I think a slightly more neutral setup would give me the confidence to push on more. I am also thinking of upping the tyre width at the same time to help with grip levels I currently only run 225’s.

If you had 3k to spend what would you recommend for ease of setup, reliability etc

Cheers lee
I’d personally look at JRZ RS1, it’s a 1 way damper with a huge adjustment range, and very high quality damping.

For 2 way, if I were you, I’d buy KW V3, then add castor adjustable top mounts, firmer rear springs, and use any extra budget to pay someone to set them up, or spend the time and effort yourself to learn how to do this. It’s not difficult, and it follows set ‘rules’ in how each adjustment affects the handling of the car, grip and weight transfer.

Surprisingly enough, one of the best resources for info on setting up suspension is on forums for high end sim racing, such as ACC.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'

Last edited by Clivew; 20-12-2019 at 23:09..
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Clivew For This Useful Post:
Uzumaki (22-12-2019)
Old 28-12-2019, 19:20   #39
kins
Regional Organiser
 
kins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheshire
Car: Evo VI RS
My Car
Posts: 21,342
Send a message via MSN to kins Send a message via Skype™ to kins
Did you decide which ones to go for Lee? Tough decision I know
kins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 20:22   #40
leeslancer8
Senior User
 
leeslancer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Car: EVO 8 260 - EVO 7 RSII - EVO 8 FQ320 MR - EVO 4 GSR
Posts: 3,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by kins View Post
Did you decide which ones to go for Lee? Tough decision I know
No still undecided Iím thinking the ohlins will be too soft for my application although a lot of people rave about them I would be tempted by jrz one ways Clive mentioned for ease of set up but cannot find a reputable supplier.

Nitrons or Kwís are also firm contenders
leeslancer8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 20:39   #41
OnlyAbo
Junior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5
Just get the Ohlins revalved and have the best of both worlds or ask a service Center to build you these if it’s only for track use

https://performanceshock.com/index.p...oducts_id=1182
OnlyAbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 20:51   #42
kins
Regional Organiser
 
kins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheshire
Car: Evo VI RS
My Car
Posts: 21,342
Send a message via MSN to kins Send a message via Skype™ to kins
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeslancer8 View Post
No still undecided I’m thinking the ohlins will be too soft for my application although a lot of people rave about them I would be tempted by jrz one ways Clive mentioned for ease of set up but cannot find a reputable supplier.

Nitrons or Kw’s are also firm contenders
Try Chris at C1-R if you want to go for the JRZ's... think he can get them as Whitti ran a set in the sprint series.
https://www.c1-r.co.uk/product/jrz-r...-vi-1999-2001/

If you're after a good read - I recommend Jans book on Vehicle Dynamics and Dampening too

Last edited by kins; 10-02-2020 at 20:54..
kins is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kins For This Useful Post:
leeslancer8 (10-02-2020)
Old 11-02-2020, 09:28   #43
TrickyDick
Very Senior User
 
TrickyDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Surrey
Car: VII FQ-300x2
Posts: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeslancer8 View Post
No still undecided Iím thinking the ohlins will be too soft for my application although a lot of people rave about them I would be tempted by jrz one ways Clive mentioned for ease of set up but cannot find a reputable supplier.

Nitrons or Kwís are also firm contenders
If you are spending that much money then I'd go Nitron every time - mainly because of long term support at factory near Oxford. If you are within travel distance why not go see them and talk about your application, I'm sure they would be helpful and put together something that exactly meets your need.
TrickyDick is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TrickyDick For This Useful Post:
kins (11-02-2020), leeslancer8 (11-02-2020)
Old 11-02-2020, 09:43   #44
kins
Regional Organiser
 
kins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheshire
Car: Evo VI RS
My Car
Posts: 21,342
Send a message via MSN to kins Send a message via Skype™ to kins
Good to spend the cash on British made stuff too!
kins is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kins For This Useful Post:
leeslancer8 (11-02-2020), TrickyDick (11-02-2020)
Mitsubishi Lancer Register
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 19:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.