quaife atb centre diff what benefits??? - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum
 
 

Go Back   Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum > Technical > Suspension / Handling

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-09-2015, 15:03   #1
welded1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 180
quaife atb centre diff what benefits???

Anyone use these?
Do you remove the vcu?
Whats the benefits?
i use my evo as a race car mainly and am trying to get better handling. Im running rs front and rear diffs and hoosier slicks.
So will this help understeer?
__________________
Evo4/6 rs on 80 series mapped by Bob Rawle
welded1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 18-09-2015, 18:33   #2
shorty2289
Senior User
 
shorty2289's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canterbury
Car: VI gsr
My Car
Posts: 927
as far as im aware the center diff is actually in the gearbox itself, the transfer box house's the front diff and vcu so im not sure you actually remove the vcu when fitting the atb center, i do know ross ran one in his sprint car and it worked really well, and going by my experience with a atb fitted to a fwd car it made a huge difference
shorty2289 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to shorty2289 For This Useful Post:
welded1 (18-09-2015)
Old 18-09-2015, 19:56   #3
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, E91 325D Ohlins/M3 bushes, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by welded1 View Post
Anyone use these?
Do you remove the vcu?
Whats the benefits?
i use my evo as a race car mainly and am trying to get better handling. Im running rs front and rear diffs and hoosier slicks.
So will this help understeer?
Do you want to fit this diff specifically to help understeer?

If so, you are going about it the wrong way. Understeer will be caused by a combination of, or one of the following; incorrect geometry, ride height, spring rates, damper settings, tyre pressures, anti-roll bar sizes or adjustment, diff settings, driving technique.

With the correct settings of the above, the Evo will not understeer at all, with a standard VCU.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 18-09-2015, 22:33   #4
balligee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cyprus
Car: Evo 6.5 TME , Evo 6 rs
Posts: 63
Clive would you care to explain the advantage or dis advantage of using this center diff other than stock
balligee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 11:27   #5
welded1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 180
So if the vcu was worn would the car act more like front or rear wheel drive?
__________________
Evo4/6 rs on 80 series mapped by Bob Rawle
welded1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 15:49   #6
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, E91 325D Ohlins/M3 bushes, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by balligee View Post
Clive would you care to explain the advantage or dis advantage of using this center diff other than stock
The ATB reacts instantly due to being 'activated' by torque, the standard VCU takes longer to react because it's speed sensing.

The problem with the ATB, is it can be to fast reacting for Tarmac, great for gravel, but constantly trying to distribute 50/50 can cause understeer. On corner entry for example, you want an open centre diff.

Also, if launching, the Quaife puts a massive strain on all the transmission because it doesn't allow any initial 'slip' from one end.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'

Last edited by Clivew; 24-09-2015 at 09:00.. Reason: Typo
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Clivew For This Useful Post:
balligee (22-09-2015)
Old 22-09-2015, 15:53   #7
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, E91 325D Ohlins/M3 bushes, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by welded1 View Post
So if the vcu was worn would the car act more like front or rear wheel drive?
Yes, you'd get a lot more wheelspin.

Unless the VCU has been severely abused and overheated, causing the silicon fluid to degrade, there isn't anything else to wear internally.

I'd personally use a Cusco RS plated front diff with an uprated VCU centre, set up correctly for Tarmac it's awesome.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2015, 15:37   #8
alpinaturbo
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 886
Clive

Can you elaborate on upgrades VCU setup for Tarmac:
Is this Cuscu 35/65 or?
And you prefer RS plated front diff over Torsen/Wavetrac on Tarmac?

How do the two improvements you mention, RS front diff and updated VCU setup for Tarmac.

Thank you
alpinaturbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2015, 18:46   #9
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, E91 325D Ohlins/M3 bushes, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinaturbo View Post
Clive

Can you elaborate on upgrades VCU setup for Tarmac:
Is this Cuscu 35/65 or?
And you prefer RS plated front diff over Torsen/Wavetrac on Tarmac?

How do the two improvements you mention, RS front diff and updated VCU setup for Tarmac.

Thank you
No not Cusco 35/65, that is something completely different and a waste of time.

Open diff in the gearbox with a Cusco uprated viscous centre LSD in the transfer box which comes as part of a kit with an RS plated front diff. The Cusco VCU comes in two options, soft or hard, which is basically the thickness of the viscous silicon fluid. A thicker fluid allows a higher amount of torque transfer.

For a road car, a Torsen helical front diff is preferable due to fit and forget, no noise and no wear. For a track/race car, you cannot beat the ultimate performance and adjustability of a Cusco RS plated diff. Properly set-up (something I specialise in) they give much better traction, and in conjunction with the VCU, allow a better adjustability of preferred balance. A Torsen centre is so efficient it's very hard to adjust power on, corner exit balance, because it's always moving torque around instantly, when on the edge of traction. Audi A4, 4 wheel drive models use a Torsen centre diff, need I say more!
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2015, 19:23   #10
Ross W
Ross Sport
 
Ross W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Près de Cambridge
Car: 8.75 @ 163
Posts: 16,976
Send a message via MSN to Ross W
Responding to the original post, I have used the Quaife centre in many cars and found it to be superb in terms of improving the overall handling and predictability.
Whilst I do agree with a lot of what Clive is saying with properly set up plated diffs and correctly selected viscous units, in the real world I have found the Quaife centre to add real benefit.
We have got a lot of wheel speed data so we know exactly what they do and it's not quite what you might expect
__________________

Huge range of Standard Evo & Tuning parts available next day delivery @ www.rosssport.com
Tel: 01945-580066 / eMail [email protected]
Ross W is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ross W For This Useful Post:
gaz007 (05-11-2017)
Old 24-09-2015, 19:36   #11
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, E91 325D Ohlins/M3 bushes, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross W View Post
Responding to the original post, I have used the Quaife centre in many cars and found it to be superb in terms of improving the overall handling and predictability.
Whilst I do agree with a lot of what Clive is saying with properly set up plated diffs and correctly selected viscous units, in the real world I have found the Quaife centre to add real benefit.
We have got a lot of wheel speed data so we know exactly what they do and it's not quite what you might expect
How did it improve the handling?

I've driven many cars with a Torsen centre (they're not just limited to Evo's with a Quaife!) and found them predictable (great for average drivers) but didn't give the adjustability I wanted.

The other major disadvantage is how much stress they put on the other transmission parts because they are very efficient at transferring torque. Well, in this universe with non adjustable physics.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2015, 19:44   #12
Ross W
Ross Sport
 
Ross W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Près de Cambridge
Car: 8.75 @ 163
Posts: 16,976
Send a message via MSN to Ross W
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivew View Post
How did it improve the handling?

I've driven many cars with a Torsen centre (they're not just limited to Evo's with a Quaife!) and found them predictable (great for average drivers) but didn't give the adjustability I wanted.

The other major disadvantage is how much stress they put on the other transmission parts because they are very efficient at transferring torque. Well, in this universe with non adjustable physics.
I suppose improves handling might be the wrong way of putting it. I found that the Quaife centre diff made the car much easier to control when it lost traction, and also allowed higher traction on tight corners.
As driving is a high percentage confidence in the car, anything that improves that for average drivers can only be a good thing
Even with the Quaife centre the viscous unit is doing a lot of work
__________________

Huge range of Standard Evo & Tuning parts available next day delivery @ www.rosssport.com
Tel: 01945-580066 / eMail [email protected]
Ross W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2015, 20:10   #13
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, E91 325D Ohlins/M3 bushes, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross W View Post
Even with the Quaife centre the viscous unit is doing a lot of work
Exactly, because the Quaife works on torque and the VCU on speed. Totally different.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 05:50   #14
alpinaturbo
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 886
Clive:
What kit do I need to purchase from Cusco, - and what do I need to send to you, to have ultimate setup for "tarmac fast road" and "track" driving?

On TME.

It has Wavetrac..one option is to buy the RS Diff with Cusco VCU..and simply keep Wavetrac in TME- but swap in your VCU setup.
Than take the RS Diff- and install in Evo 8 with ACD...
I trust ACD you like..better than VCU?


Or since TME is mainly road car...can you uprate/setup VCU to be "better" while keeping the presently installed Wavetrac?


Thanks
alpinaturbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 12:07   #15
Clivew
Transmission Dynamics
 
Clivew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bedford
Car: Highly Modded E6 T04Z/2.2ltr, E91 325D Ohlins/M3 bushes, Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup.
My Car
Posts: 7,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinaturbo View Post
Clive:
What kit do I need to purchase from Cusco, - and what do I need to send to you, to have ultimate setup for "tarmac fast road" and "track" driving?

On TME.

It has Wavetrac..one option is to buy the RS Diff with Cusco VCU..and simply keep Wavetrac in TME- but swap in your VCU setup.
Than take the RS Diff- and install in Evo 8 with ACD...
I trust ACD you like..better than VCU?


Or since TME is mainly road car...can you uprate/setup VCU to be "better" while keeping the presently installed Wavetrac?


Thanks
Do you have specific issues with your current set-up? A Wavetrac front diff is an excellent diff for mainly road use, and preferable for a car that isn't set-up very aggressively for track use. That's the beauty of helical diffs, even better the Wavetrac, they are noise free, predictable, don't need setting up and work straight out of the box.

Cuscos RS plated are very noisy, need setting up for the specific car, and wear out. Also, on the Evo 4/5/6/TME, the transfer box and gearbox oil supply system needs modifying unless you're running a dogbox because the gearbox oil lubricates the front diff, and the plated diff needs an LS oil, the syncro gearbox a non LS oil!

TME/E8 front diff are non interchangeable, and Cusco RS, Cusco VCU non interchangeable with standard helical or VCU.

It is possible to replace the standard VCU fluid to a thicker viscosity fluid, and it's something I've looked into for people with knackered VCU's because you can't buy a new one, buts its not an easy task, as they have to have the correct amount of fluid and the correct pressure air, before they are sealed, i.e. specialist equipment to carry out.
__________________
[email protected]

'There is no worse bitterness than to reach the end of your life and realise you have not lived'
Clivew is offline   Reply With Quote
Mitsubishi Lancer Register
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 18:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.