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Old 26-08-2019, 21:55   #1
Track Formula
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Continential Teves MK60 ABS System

I would like to start a thread about the Continential Teves MK60 ABS System that will take some time to complete but I feel will benefit others. It will be continually updated as and when things progress but the main aim is to install this ABS system into my Evo 8 and a possible plan to make some form of installation kit. It may be just a simple bracket and not needing a full kit but the hubs will need machined so could maybe offer that service or a pre-machined/exchange services with surcharge like motor factors do on some parts.

Either way, let's get to the point but before I do I need to highlight that some parts of this thread are not confirmed so you are responsible for checking and confirming the information for yourself. This is all pretty much new to me too.

BOSCH have long been thought of as the people to use for race ABS. This is pretty much true but Continental Teves offer what some call the most sophisticated ABS system out there, the MK60E5 model. There are two main model types with multiple part numbers and differences underneath them. The starting point in the MK60 ABS kit which is found in a few cars but mainly the BMW E46 M3 with the CSL model having a slightly upgraded unit. These systems are full 4 channel kits not 3 channel like most other road cars. The mother of all MK60 units is the MK60E5 which has more pressure sensors on the input and output and can also be programmed to take into account aero. A good example to highlight is the recent video by High Performance Academy on the ex-Georg Plasa BMW where this car uses the MK60E5 ABS system.

In this thread I hope to update as I go on getting all the parts together and machining the hubs to accept the new ABS sensors and wiring it together along with flashing the ABS setup with a motorsport file.

Anyone can add to this and I encourage others that race their cars to make an effort to install this setup. This ABS kit has been fitted to many racing Corvettes, Porsches etc and all with great results and feedback.

The part numbers of the pumps will let you know what you can do with them.

MK60 units

BMW 282250, ATE PN 10.0960.0813.3 Standard E46 M3 but is reflashable to CSL & Motorsport

BMW PN 282250, ATE PN 10.0960.0818.3, Standard E46 M3 not flashable (most common)

BMW PN 282420, ATE PN 10.0960.0817.3 M3 ZCP/CSL, flashable to Motorsports or custom

My current plan is to get a 813 or 817 part number pump and have it either flashed with a CSL calibration or there is another option which is a motorsport calibration. This motorsport cal allows CAN logging and you can custom select the ABS ring count so it means no custom rings need manufactured.

So, to confirm, there is OEM, CSL and Motorsport calibrations available. The CSL calibration is cheap ($125USD) but the motorsport one is £1,250. I need to find out more on what's going on with it to be honest but this is the point of this thread.

Below are my current notes, refereces etc.

Reference links & pages:

1. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...tandalone-info
2. https://www.facebook.com/bmwm3motorsport/
3. http://info.3dmmotorsport.com/mk60-m...andalone-guide
4. https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...brakes/1tzCnXU
5. https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...-cayman-s.html
6. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-q...p4ZzBScTA/edit (E46 TRACTION AND STABILITY CONTROL
7. SYSTEMS PDF DOCUMENT)
8. http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/archi.../t-464836.html
9. http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/archi.../t-464836.html
10. https://www.facebook.com/apexspeedte...3034247771115/ - added 28/08/19
11. https://rennlist.com/forums/data-acq...loggers-3.html - added 28/08/19


Parts Required:

1x BMW E46 ABS Pump/Controller
2x BMW E46 Brake Pressure Sensors P/N: 34521164458
1x E46 M3 Integrated Accel/Yaw Sensor P/N: 34526764018
1x Z3 3.0i Front Right Wheel Speed Sensor - P/N: 34526752690
1x Z3 3.0i Front Left Wheel Speed Sensor - P/N: 34526752689
2x E46 M3 Rear Wheel Speed Sensors - P/N: 34526752683
4x Universal ABS Sensor Sockets - P/N: 61131392246
1x Custom MK60 ABS Harness
1x Steering angle sensor


General Notes:
1. The wheels in the E46 are 48 teeth

- added 28/08/19
The channels from the Mk60E5 are:
4 wheel speeds (CAN)
4 wheel speeds (digital output)
4 brake pressures
master brake pressure
ABS alarm warning (CAN)
ABS alarm warning (analog output)
abs active
yaw rate
g force lat
g force long

- added 28/08/19
The Mk60 channels are:
4 wheel speeds (CAN)
4 wheel speeds (digital output)
4 brake pressures
ABS alarm warning (CAN)
ABS alarm warning (analog output)


Add comments, email friends or call your friends at Continental. Let's combine out internet powers to make this a straight forward and cost effective (compared to BOSCH) ABS kit for track use for Evos.

David
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Last edited by Track Formula; 28-08-2019 at 18:53..
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Old 28-08-2019, 04:13   #2
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what about brake ballance?

with the motorsport calibration being that expensive, surely the bosch motorsport kit is an option?
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Old 28-08-2019, 08:30   #3
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This sounds to me very similar to a package that it already available in the UK, albeit that I'm not sure it's ever been applied to an Evo.

As far as Evos are concerned, how would you combine the new ABS system with AYC/ACD, where (I believe) the OE ABS unit (and/or it's electronics module) will still be needed? And one of the reasons I say this is because on my X RS there is no ABS and yet it still has either what is, or looks exactly the same as an ABS unit, for receiving wheel speed info that is required for the ACD. Does that make any sense?
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Old 28-08-2019, 10:02   #4
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Interesting project but to me it sounds like a lot of work and expense for a bit of an unknown as to how well it will work , to me unless the unit is fully programmable like the Bosch Motorsport system i dont see the point but maybe im missing something ?

Good luck though
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Old 28-08-2019, 10:59   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikiturbo View Post
what about brake ballance?

with the motorsport calibration being that expensive, surely the bosch motorsport kit is an option?
Thanks for your question.

With regards to balance, if you wanted control over it, it would be the same as the BOSCH system. As in, you add a balance bar setup with a pedal box.

Cost-wise the MK60 setup even with the motorsport calibration is considerably less than a M5 Clubsport kit which is the entry level setup. Circa £6,200 with VAT plus £920 for the MSA Box to use for comms and to bleed the brakes. The MSA box is a must and is extremely over-priced but it is what it is. Just shy of £7,300 will net you the entry level M5 Clubsport kit which has pretty much the same offering than a MK60 setup (as far as I know). However, getting a MK60E5 pump will give you a more advanced system. It’s not needed for 98% of us with aero compensation but it’s still more affordable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
This sounds to me very similar to a package that it already available in the UK, albeit that I'm not sure it's ever been applied to an Evo.

As far as Evos are concerned, how would you combine the new ABS system with AYC/ACD, where (I believe) the OE ABS unit (and/or it's electronics module) will still be needed? And one of the reasons I say this is because on my X RS there is no ABS and yet it still has either what is, or looks exactly the same as an ABS unit, for receiving wheel speed info that is required for the ACD. Does that make any sense?
Thanks for your question .

Can you link us to this system please? Keen to see what it is.

The same can be applied to how you would add a BOSCH M5 kit to an Evo with AYC/ACD also. To me, the answer would be as simple as this. How many track or race Evos still use AYC? There may be a handful but although it was not clear at the start of this post, my car is track only. It’s not road registered. However, it does have ACD and I’m retaining it and controlling it via an Emtron KV8 and a Cosworth ICD. As far as I know the ACD will operate based on strategies from yaw (G), steering angle and brake pressures. Similar to ABS.

The BOSCH kit is a 4-channel system just like the MK60. Both use two pressure sensors, yaw sensors and have built-in ECU for track/race type driving so with most of these questions you can apply the same to how would a M5 BOSCH kit fit to my car. As you can see by the amount of Evo and other cars that race with such kits fitted a lot of the OEM features are deleted.





Quote:
Originally Posted by thetyrant View Post
Interesting project but to me it sounds like a lot of work and expense for a bit of an unknown as to how well it will work , to me unless the unit is fully programmable like the Bosch Motorsport system i dont see the point but maybe im missing something ?

Good luck though
Thanks for your question.

I don’t see it as a lot of work since the BOSCH ABS sensors would need a custom installation, so will the BMW. If using a MK60 supplier they can supply a universal or specific loom just like BOSCH but with the Clubsport it’s a universal loom that can wrap the length of the car and back. BOSCH needs two pressure sensors and a yaw sensor installed. Same as the MK60. The work is exactly the same to install both the kits in my eyes. I have installed a Clubsport M5 kit and been through the limited software with it. It allows you to bleed the brakes or change the pickup ring count. The Clubsport software is not something you can play with and change brake balance and settings. All that is locked so you don’t cause a huge problem.

Have you worked with a BOSCH system before? Because it’s not fully programmable from an end users view. When you order it you give wheel and tyre circumference, axle weight, encoder teeth count, wheel base, gross weight and track width. They are then set and locked so you cannot adjust them. (I need to find out if this can all be done with the motorsport calibration.) It’s not an open system as some think it might be.

If you search far enough you can see it’s far from an unknown system. It’s being used in Pro/Am racing globally with success. The more people I’m speaking to the more I can see that it's even been on cars I’ve seen race. It’s never something you look immediately for in a cabin or engine bay or what you ask the owner as we assume a race ABS system would be BOSCH.

High Performance Academy did a recent video on the ex-Georg Plasa E36 hill climb car that was restored by the owner of KW Suspension. This car has a 3.4 litre V8 Judd engine and has broken countless records with some of them even being as recent as this year since it’s been rebuilt. It uses a MK60E5 ABS system.


This is the whole purpose of this thread and it’s great that there are questions being asked about it all. It will move everyone forward with this and also inform others.
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Old 28-08-2019, 11:05   #6
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Originally Posted by thetyrant View Post
Interesting project but to me it sounds like a lot of work and expense for a bit of an unknown as to how well it will work , to me unless the unit is fully programmable like the Bosch Motorsport system i dont see the point but maybe im missing something ?

Good luck though
My information is that it's a very good system indeed, and programmable to an even greater extent that the Bosch Motorsport system.

But shouldn't the way forward on this be to get in touch with the people that already have the setup knowledge/capability (including the programming software) and then see what it takes to turn it into a ready made kit that can be used on Evos - with AYC/ACD etc?
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Old 28-08-2019, 11:15   #7
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Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
My information is that it's a very good system indeed, and programmable to an even greater extent that the Bosch Motorsport system.

But shouldn't the way forward on this be to get in touch with the people that already have the setup knowledge/capability (including the programming software) and then see what it takes to turn it into a ready made kit that can be used on Evos - with AYC/ACD etc?
This is the exact information I'm receiving also.

I am talking with a number of people in relation to this setup. All racers themselves or people tasked with installing and setting the cars up. However, all of them race rear drive or mid engine cars. Proper race cars are rarely Evos or four wheel drive so instant information from them about AYC etc isn't available. For me, moving forward with the AYC question I would opt to remove it as you would if you were making a track car anyway. I don't see how it would harm the car/chassis keeping it but again, this is all based on a track/race car which has other advanced controls in place such as a very capable ECU and related. It's not a plug and play setup. You would be looking to setup and calibrate the ABS system in relation to other active controls like ACD.

To confirm, this thread is not about fitting the MK60 ABS system into a road car but I would be interested in anyones input in relation to this. I will find out more about AYC related and update here when I do.
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Old 28-08-2019, 11:58   #8
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Sounds more promising than you make it appear on the first post then and look forward to your findings

Quick read over your first post and i took from it that you could flash a more Motorsport orientated profile to the unit which i took as a locked file, i didnt realise you can actually modify it which makes more sense, will be interesting to see how it develops.
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Old 28-08-2019, 12:08   #9
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This is the exact information I'm receiving also.

I am talking with a number of people in relation to this setup. All racers themselves or people tasked with installing and setting the cars up. However, all of them race rear drive or mid engine cars. Proper race cars are rarely Evos or four wheel drive so instant information from them about AYC etc isn't available. For me, moving forward with the AYC question I would opt to remove it as you would if you were making a track car anyway. I don't see how it would harm the car/chassis keeping it but again, this is all based on a track/race car which has other advanced controls in place such as a very capable ECU and related. It's not a plug and play setup. You would be looking to setup and calibrate the ABS system in relation to other active controls like ACD.

To confirm, this thread is not about fitting the MK60 ABS system into a road car but I would be interested in anyones input in relation to this. I will find out more about AYC related and update here when I do.
I understand your point about concentrating efforts towards track cars, but that could still include a number with AYC and an even larger number with ACD. So if the new ABS system could cope with both, or at least ACD, that would in my view significantly increase the attraction.

How and whether that is achievable is a separate question altogether, although I believe that the MK60 has the capability to output data via CAN (eg wheel speed data) that could potentially then be made available to the likes of the AYC/ACD control units?
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Old 28-08-2019, 12:09   #10
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Sounds more promising than you make it appear on the first post then and look forward to your findings

Quick read over your first post and i took from it that you could flash a more Motorsport orientated profile to the unit which i took as a locked file, i didnt realise you can actually modify it which makes more sense, will be interesting to see how it develops.
I'm learning about it all too so some of the posts may now and again appear to say one thing and mean another for now haha.

I've been on the MLR for years and miss seeing technical project posts like this so hopefully it will benefit the forum.

I should know about how much can be customised within the motorsport calibration shortly.
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Old 28-08-2019, 12:22   #11
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Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
I understand your point about concentrating efforts towards track cars, but that could still include a number with AYC and an even larger number with ACD. So if the new ABS system could cope with both, or at least ACD, that would in my view significantly increase the attraction.

How and whether that is achievable is a separate question altogether, although I believe that the MK60 has the capability to output data via CAN (eg wheel speed data) that could potentially then be made available to the likes of the AYC/ACD control units?
Yes, you are correct. The fact it's installed and used in Porsche Caymans and modern Corvettes to me indicates it can at some level be integrated well. It's just sorting it all out for the Evo application.
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Old 28-08-2019, 15:10   #12
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UPDATE


"The motorsport programming takes into account about 20 chassis parameters including most of the ones you mentioned (it doesn’t take axle weight or F/R wt distribution) but also includes things such as caliper piston count and size, rotor size, pad size (for automatic pad knockback), etc.

Those parameters are specified when the map is built and are not user adjustable on the fly. Changes to the code are free (less shipping).

I’ve successfully used the OEM and CSL maps on other chassis but as the grip levels go up or the chassis dynamics change more from the E46 M3 there becomes a greater need for custom programming."
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Old 28-08-2019, 15:19   #13
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Has that go got anything to do with 4WD cars ?
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Old 28-08-2019, 15:27   #14
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Has that go got anything to do with 4WD cars ?
Haha, here we go with grants. Genuinely, what's your problem on here? It’s like you enjoy being critical and difficult. Why not try to add to this thread instead of being rude?

It’s an update to an on-going thread/project I have added and you start with snippy remarks already.

As far as I know it does not matter that the platform being used is 4WD.

Either contribute normally or your posts will be ignored.
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Old 28-08-2019, 18:13   #15
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As far as I know the ACD will operate based on strategies from yaw (G), steering angle and brake pressures. Similar to ABS.
The above is an extract from one of your earlier posts.

I guess that's why the X RS has ABS pump unit even though operationally the ABS is deactivated ie as a way to supply brake pressure info to the ACD controller.

I know you aren't really interested in producing a package to suit an AYC equipped track car, but out of interest do you know what else is needed ie over and above what's needed for ACD operation - perhaps wheel speed info?
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