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Old 25-08-2017, 22:21   #1
Kwakerswull
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Juddering

The brakes in question are Alcon 6 pots 365mm

They've started to judder like **** and it's doing my tits in. It's not that apparent at lower speeds or when driving normal, but as soon as you push on a bit and at higher speeds they judder like mad.

I'm thinking this is more to do with pad material build up on the disc oppose to "warped discs"...... so with that in mind I'm more inclined to try a set of good pads like carbotech xp's which should clear them up. Failing that I'd then purchase new discs

The current pads are ferodo ds2500 iirc.

Cheers W
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Old 25-08-2017, 22:59   #2
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I think I would go for XP10s tbh .
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Old 26-08-2017, 09:15   #3
Godspeed Brakes
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Make sure the calipers are working as should be, The Alcon 6 pot calipers have mild steel pistons and not very good seals for stopping road grime getting in the bores. Check the pistons are not starting to rust.
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Old 04-09-2017, 15:34   #4
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In our experience, the compound that you are using, does have the tendency to leave pad deposits on the disc when pushed hard, which then can cause the juddering. Emery cloth 40-60 grit around the disc faces, it isn't thrilling but it's a good place to start.
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Old 10-09-2017, 01:45   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PFC Brakes View Post
In our experience, the compound that you are using, does have the tendency to leave pad deposits on the disc when pushed hard, which then can cause the juddering. Emery cloth 40-60 grit around the disc faces, it isn't thrilling but it's a good place to start.
Would it be worth while having the discs skimmed then the pads replaced with XP's?
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Old 10-09-2017, 13:15   #6
Paul fq 320
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Hi I had brake judder on my evo 9 fq 320 about 6 years ago what was doing my head in as well. renew both front wheel bearings / hubs. And it's never done it again. Hope this helps


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Old 10-09-2017, 13:19   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwakerswull View Post
Would it be worth while having the discs skimmed then the pads replaced with XP's?
The XP's will clean up the discs after a good spirited drive. If they're still juddering then maybe get the discs skimmed but also as above you may need to look at wheel bearings and stuff if it persists.
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Old 10-09-2017, 13:50   #8
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Id be checking the discs with a dti gauge I had one but lent it out & never seen it again
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Old 10-09-2017, 15:03   #9
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As already mentioned, it could be due to various factors, either individually or conspiring together.

Does it feel like the judder is from both wheels equally? I'll assume it is.

My suggested step by step route would be as follows:-)

1.With both front wheels off the ground grab each wheel/tyre top and bottom and check for movement, especially if different one side or the other (for a dodgy wheel bearing). Then side to side to see if there's any obvious issue with trackrod end balljoints.

2. Remove the wheels and check for runout of the discs. The amount of acceptable runout is probably around 0.1mm, but half that or less is highly preferable.

3. Remove the calipers and inspect pads and piston calipers. If less than 5mm friction material it's definitely time to change the pads. Expect to find inside pads to be worn more than the outsides. Note which pad was where. Inspect the caliper pistons and check for corrosion and whether they move freely in and out of their bores (being careful not to pop one out completely!!). Also check the areas where the pads locate in the calipers and that the pads are not excessively tight (or loose).


5. Remove the discs, but make sure you mark which position they were in relative to the studs. Inspect for any obvious pad deposits or corrosion - again, inside faces are often much worse for corrosion than the visible outside faces.

6. If the disc runout was excessive it might be worth checking each of the hub flanges in case the runout is caused by the bearing rather than disc. Hub runout should be minuscule.

7. Other things you might try are looking at the state of the suspension balljoints, bushes and strut top mounts. Also that the tyres are in a good state and wheels aren't buckled.


If your conclusion is simply that the PFC pads have caused excessive deposits on the discs then as a the minimum you need to be giving them a really good scuffing, and do the same to the pads unless you are sure you want to change them rather than discard.

If you do go down the Carbotech route then be sure to ask Ian (thetyrant on the MLR) which pad compound might be best and also take his advice of how to make the transition over to the new pad material and how it will need to transmit its own film onto the disc surface before you can get the best out of them.

I've probably missed a few things, but I'm sure others will fill in any gaps
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