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Old 22-04-2010, 18:50   #61
stevov
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donald she sounds fantastic.it just seems to be always there.no waiting. a sweet seamless flow of of power up through the revs one gear to the next.well done.
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Old 22-04-2010, 19:56   #62
Madmac
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I'm not looking out to take your secrets, you run that Evo, drive and get your times and show the world what you've managed with it. I for one am impressed and I think that your system and others like it could be the future of Evo tuning and giving the other performance cars out there like the R35's the nudge they need to realise that they're not going to be at the top for ever. Good on you mate!

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I believe there's little doubt this is the future of tuning. This seemed the ideal solution to the lag issue and it has more benefits than just the 'no lag'. Starting to attract a lot of interest now. I may turn this into a wee business as it isn't the first engine i've supercharged, and the basic setup is simple enough. Been a lot of work this far though....

Build by a fat bald ugly bloke in a shed in 2 months....
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Old 22-04-2010, 20:45   #63
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When shall I put my order in for a 650 bhp version?
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Old 23-04-2010, 12:37   #64
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Clue: It's all about the difference between exhaust back pressure relative to inlet pressure!
ok.... are you simply feeding them both into the same manifold? that could work, but would mean the Supercharger is having to boost air at 2.6bar and that would make LOTS of heat!

there are only so many ways you can do this! lol

1) Like VW do with the turbo and SC (supercharger) in series with a baypas valve to bypass the SC once the trubo it upto speed

2) SC feeding turbo. this can work also however you need a valve that will allow the turbo to breath once it is flowing more air than the SC.

3) true compound boosting, this is where the turbo feeds straight into the SC. this would be the simpliest to do, but can take alot more boost to make the same power.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Old 23-04-2010, 18:04   #65
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ok.... are you simply feeding them both into the same manifold? that could work, but would mean the Supercharger is having to boost air at 2.6bar and that would make LOTS of heat!

there are only so many ways you can do this! lol

1) Like VW do with the turbo and SC (supercharger) in series with a baypas valve to bypass the SC once the trubo it upto speed

2) SC feeding turbo. this works as well, however you need a valve that will allow the turbo to breath once it is flowing more air than the SC

3) true compound boosting, this is where the turbo feeds straight into the SC. this would be the simpliest to do, but can take alot more boost to make the same power.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
True, each way has it's advantages and disadvantages. 1) VW engine has been designed for economy and driveability with top end power limited to the size of the turbo. Great for a road car but limited for competition cars.

2) SC feeding turbo will work too but the supercharger needs to be much bigger to flow the same as the turbo, or as you suggest a valve that opens when the turbo outflows the SC. Again, top end is limited to the capabilities of the turbo only as the SC will be bypassed. This is easy enough to setup though....

3) Why would you think it's more difficult to make power with a true compound charge system?

There's a lot more goes on than you would think with all 3 versions.
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Old 25-04-2010, 17:48   #66
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Very nice setup there mate.
+1. Looks almost OEM to a degree, thats how well executed it is. Yea i think you'd make a fair amount of money by doing a few kits here and there for some Time Attackers.
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Old 26-04-2010, 07:56   #67
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Very nice setup there mate.
+1. Looks almost OEM to a degree, thats how well executed it is. Yea i think you'd make a fair amount of money by doing a few kits here and there for some Time Attackers.
Couldn't even think about that until i finish my own one! I need to prove it works and stays together first....

Noticed a crack in the gearbox bellhousing on Saturday so i've spent the weekend removing, stripping and welding etc. Caused by the new style front mount so a small re-design needed to stop it happening again. Now the box is out i may as well refresh the clutch and go for the other mods to take us closer to serious power! Good news is the internals of the box are all in good shape.

With the tubular front subframe a clutch is quite a big job now as a lot more needs removed for access so i may as well keep on top of it for reliability.
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Old 26-04-2010, 12:38   #68
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3) Why would you think it's more difficult to make power with a true compound charge system?

There's a lot more goes on than you would think with all 3 versions.
Just from what i hear. there are a few people in the US running tein charged Ford Mustangs. They make MASSIVE power, but the turbo only guys are still making more bhp, often at lower boost lelvels, than the compound guys. However the low and mid range power is often 3-400bhp more! Thats on 4.6ltr V8s.

Would love to see someone do a coupnd turbo kit (big turbo feeding smaller turbo) for the Evo. Packaging would be nightmare though! lol

Chris.
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Old 26-04-2010, 14:21   #69
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Just from what i hear. there are a few people in the US running tein charged Ford Mustangs. They make MASSIVE power, but the turbo only guys are still making more bhp, often at lower boost lelvels, than the compound guys. However the low and mid range power is often 3-400bhp more! Thats on 4.6ltr V8s.

Would love to see someone do a coupnd turbo kit (big turbo feeding smaller turbo) for the Evo. Packaging would be nightmare though! lol

Chris.
In a true compound charge system it's down to blower sizing, blower drive ratio and turbo housing size as to how much power is made. If the blower is big enough, it would always multiply the turbo boost within the blower efficiency range so sizing of the 2 compressors is paramount.

Of course big HP figures aren't always best. On a turbo engine, the power comes in hard when the turbo spools and although a higher HP figure can be achieved, it's at the expense of a driveable motor. On a compound system, the low end torque and power can be hugely improved and if it's setup well enough, similar top end figures can be achieved and make the car quicker point-to-point than the bigger power turbo motors.

Packaging an Evo engine bay of any twincharge system is a nightmare - trust me. So many things needed changed or modified to allow this to work.

A big turbo feeding a smaller turbo wouldn't work very well - your total flow would be restricted by the smaller turbo and with using 2 turbos there would still be a lag issue with no real power gains IMO.

It's not all about more boost I'm seeing similar top end power figures with 1.9bar on this system as i was getting with the T04z maxxed out at 2.6bar last year.
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Old 27-04-2010, 12:40   #70
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In a true compound charge system it's down to blower sizing, blower drive ratio and turbo housing size as to how much power is made. If the blower is big enough, it would always multiply the turbo boost within the blower efficiency range so sizing of the 2 compressors is paramount.

Of course big HP figures aren't always best. On a turbo engine, the power comes in hard when the turbo spools and although a higher HP figure can be achieved, it's at the expense of a driveable motor. On a compound system, the low end torque and power can be hugely improved and if it's setup well enough, similar top end figures can be achieved and make the car quicker point-to-point than the bigger power turbo motors.

Packaging an Evo engine bay of any twincharge system is a nightmare - trust me. So many things needed changed or modified to allow this to work.

A big turbo feeding a smaller turbo wouldn't work very well - your total flow would be restricted by the smaller turbo and with using 2 turbos there would still be a lag issue with no real power gains IMO.

It's not all about more boost I'm seeing similar top end power figures with 1.9bar on this system as i was getting with the T04z maxxed out at 2.6bar last year.
Some very good points, however compunded turbos do work. Here is a link to a guy in the states running a compound 4G63T (NOT an EVO). he is running the same times as he was with his GT42rs (and 150bhp shot for spool) but without the gas.

https://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=302487

Just a difrent solution to a similar problem (laggy turbo). I would imagine your setup would provide instant boost (ie no lag at all) thanks to the inherent design of the positive displacement supercharger.

i think one of the problems with feed the supercharger with the turbo is trying to fit a big enough cooler after the supercharger. the ideal setup would run an intercooler/chargecooler after each stage, ie an intercooelr after the turbo and then another after the supercharger. but like you say packaging that is a nightmare. lol

Would still love to hear how your setup works, its really bugging me now! lol

Cheers,

Chris.
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Old 27-04-2010, 12:44   #71
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Its bugging us all BUT you protect your IP Don keep slipping tasters into this thread tho for us nerds
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Old 27-04-2010, 13:05   #72
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Originally Posted by Chuntington101 View Post
Some very good points, however compunded turbos do work. Here is a link to a guy in the states running a compound 4G63T (NOT an EVO). he is running the same times as he was with his GT42rs (and 150bhp shot for spool) but without the gas.

https://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=302487

Just a difrent solution to a similar problem (laggy turbo). I would imagine your setup would provide instant boost (ie no lag at all) thanks to the inherent design of the positive displacement supercharger.

i think one of the problems with feed the supercharger with the turbo is trying to fit a big enough cooler after the supercharger. the ideal setup would run an intercooler/chargecooler after each stage, ie an intercooelr after the turbo and then another after the supercharger. but like you say packaging that is a nightmare. lol

Would still love to hear how your setup works, its really bugging me now! lol

Cheers,

Chris.
Yes, air temps can be a problem right enough. I have a solution to this but in all honesty, it's not needed at the moment with my setup. Even when we up the power it's unlikely to be needed

Sorry if it's bugging you all, i actually want to tell the world how i did it but for the moment, my lips are sealed....
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Old 27-04-2010, 13:12   #73
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Did u get the crack sorted?
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Old 27-04-2010, 19:56   #74
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Did u get the crack sorted?
Yeah i have the casing welded up and the fully rebuilt box ready to go back in now. I'm taking the opportunity to replace the clutch while it's apart so no hurry to get it back together just now.

Sorry i missed Crail. I even had the passenger seat back in so i could take you for a stage. The crack was big enough to trip over so i couldn't take any chances of the casing breaking away and mixing with the flywheel. Simple modification to stop it happening again. Oh well, that's development for you....!
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Old 28-04-2010, 15:40   #75
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Yeah i have the casing welded up and the fully rebuilt box ready to go back in now. I'm taking the opportunity to replace the clutch while it's apart so no hurry to get it back together just now.

Sorry i missed Crail. I even had the passenger seat back in so i could take you for a stage. The crack was big enough to trip over so i couldn't take any chances of the casing breaking away and mixing with the flywheel. Simple modification to stop it happening again. Oh well, that's development for you....!
Yeah that passenger seats mine next time we can be in the same place at the same time

Glad you got it sorted hun
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