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Old 10-09-2019, 21:21   #1
Jim Salter
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BHP v WHP v HP

Been thinking about this for a while.

As my car made low power on the dyno recently I got to looking at bringng it up to stage 1 and started looking around on here and on evolutionM and a few other sites.

One of the things that I was curious about was the difference between the UK/Ireland numbers and the USA numbers.

For most a 400/400 car is (kinda) the desired point to reach (for me it is also) and I am looking forward to getting near it. These numbers (for power - dunno about torque) are quoted at the fly wheel and seems to be accepted that there is about 25% loss due to AWD (please correct me if I am wrong). so a 400 car is 300 at the wheels.

While looking on evolutionM when they refer to power figures they mostly quote at the wheels. So a 400 at the wheel car is about 530 at the fly.

My question is: how come in the US they seem to be able to tune significantly more powerful Evo's?

Last edited by Jim Salter; 10-09-2019 at 21:22..
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Old 10-09-2019, 21:53   #2
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they usually use Dynojet figures which are very generous...
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:13   #3
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Some more 'investigation' and it seems that they also use 100 RON or 'race fuel' when doing dyno runs
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:29   #4
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Many in the US use E85 fuel which allows them to run a lot of boost and timing without​ knock.
good write up here
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Old 15-09-2019, 13:39   #5
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Many in the US use E85 fuel which allows them to run a lot of boost and timing without​ knock.
good write up here


Nice write up and a good explanation on the E85 there


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Old 15-09-2019, 18:11   #6
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Iíve read they also keep the torque low when mapping on standard engine in America but big hp
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Old 16-09-2019, 09:48   #7
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they just use silly large turbos... cant spool up down low..
but yes, they tend to use stock engine in large HP builds..
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Old 16-09-2019, 15:02   #8
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There is a lot of generalization here, especially about stock engines. Some people detune to keep torque down on larger turbos, but anyone with a 600 WHP capable setup will have a forged engine, not stock. A stock turbo can be maxed out on a stock shortblock, so no need to build there.

The vast majority of dynos in North America measure horsepower at the wheels - i.e. what the car puts down on the road. This is power calculated after driveline losses. In my opinion, there is no point in measuring power at the flywheel (bhp), since driveline losses are such a major variable and won't tell you how a car will perform.

E85 tends to make big power numbers, but the US is all about power. The recipes that work have been around for a long time, so people go with what works. Tuners know exactly what works, so they can make 'kill' tunes that maximize output without blowing things up.

If you want numbers similar to what they put down, try to mimic the setup with parts, and have the car remote-tuned by one of the better US tuners.

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Old 16-09-2019, 16:23   #9
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There is a lot of generalization here, especially about stock engines. Some people detune to keep torque down on larger turbos, but anyone with a 600 WHP capable setup will have a forged engine, not stock. A stock turbo can be maxed out on a stock shortblock, so no need to build there.

The vast majority of dynos in North America measure horsepower at the wheels - i.e. what the car puts down on the road. This is power calculated after driveline losses. In my opinion, there is no point in measuring power at the flywheel (bhp), since driveline losses are such a major variable and won't tell you how a car will perform.

E85 tends to make big power numbers, but the US is all about power. The recipes that work have been around for a long time, so people go with what works. Tuners know exactly what works, so they can make 'kill' tunes that maximize output without blowing things up.

If you want numbers similar to what they put down, try to mimic the setup with parts, and have the car remote-tuned by one of the better US tuners.
Mustang dynos are comparable to most of the dynos in the UK... Dynojet shows significantly higher numbers..
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Old 16-09-2019, 16:56   #10
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The vast majority of dynos in North America measure horsepower at the wheels - i.e. what the car puts down on the road.
All dynos do that!
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Old 16-09-2019, 16:59   #11
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Iíve read they also keep the torque low when mapping on standard engine in America but big hp
You can't have power without torque (since power = torque multiplied by rpm).
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Old 16-09-2019, 17:06   #12
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All dynos do that!
Not if it's an engine dyno . . . .
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Old 16-09-2019, 17:38   #13
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You can't have power without torque (since power = torque multiplied by rpm).
I thought it could be limited though?
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Old 16-09-2019, 17:52   #14
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I thought it could be limited though?

It's limited below 5000 RPM, torque usually drops off after that and boost can be cranked up. Smaller turbos are notorious for torque spikes around 4000 RPM and larger turbos can make a lot between 4000 and 5000, which can exceed the transmission's capability.

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Old 16-09-2019, 18:00   #15
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Not if it's an engine dyno . . . .
Obviously!
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