Conservatory Advice

[NasEvo]

Hi All,

I have a few niggles bugging me about my new conservatory (purchased, fully paid and fitted in Oct/Nov 2017) from a local well established company who supply and fit and they seem to have all the certifications I would expect from a reputable company.

In December 2017, I reported a leak down the inside wall of the conservatory – quick response was received, were the fitters returned a couple of days later and used silicone between the frame and render throughout the whole frame from the inside.

In January 2018, I see a dribble in one of the corners of the conservatory – So called them again and got a quick response, fitters came out and removed the PVC trimming and about 1litre of water gushed out from behind. The fitters , the manager and a senior fitter - On inspection they found water dripping through the nuts and bolts of the frame. – So the removed the glass panels and used silicone all the way round which did not stop the dribble. –Which left them scratching their heads on what the problem could be.

https://www.lancerregister.com/attach...1&d=1520500111

My background before I continue – I am an internal ISO 9001 quality inspector and Metrologist who specialises in troubleshooting measurement variation and measurement uncertainty. I could compile a report using calibrated tools as my disposal so that measurements are traceable to international standards and SI Units as just by looking at the fitment I can confirm they measured from the render rather than the brickwork of the house so when the frame was manufactured rather than having a product that is 5mm ± 2mm gap, the gap is 15mm ± 5mm gap, which I can do before I escalating.

My opinion regarding this problem was that the source was the original source I reported back in December 2017 and had a suspicion that the leak was being re-directed to the frame and due to a capillary effect and laws of gravity the water was running along the frame and through the nuts, to confirm this I used a hose and sprayed water in to the air and the wall of the house to confirm my suspicion– As I expressed my opinion to the manager he replied with I shouldn’t be spraying in to the frame and the rubber gasket above the glass, which I was quite offended by as this indicated he was suggesting I was making this up and making a problem when there wasn’t one.

So after a couple of weeks of head scratching and waiting for nature to run its course (waiting for a rainy day) – a definitive confirmation of water running in to the house enabled me to call the company and ask them to return for them to see for themselves to which they agreed there is water behind the leading and confirmed the leading will need to be re-done.

They came out yesterday (07/03/2018) replaced 1 side of the leading and reworked the other side. What I mean by re-work is, peeled back the lead cut deeper in to the render (not sure is they cut in to the block work behind the render) and re-cemented the leading to the render. I specifically asked them to remove the silicone between the conservatory and the house so I can keep an eye out for any more leaks.

The Leading:

https://www.lancerregister.com/attach...1&d=1520500111

https://www.lancerregister.com/attach...1&d=1520500111

The reason I am asking for advice is, it’s left a really sour taste from this experience and now the quality inspector inside of me, could be being pedantic because this is not my area of expertise. My question is should there be a 15-20mm gap between the frame and the house? They advertise on their website that conservatories are energy efficient without compromising on the homes warmth which is why I when down the route of a new conservatory (to replace an existing one – which IMO was warmer and did not leak) instead of doing an extension. Cost wise it would have been about the same because I paid extra for Pilkington Activ™ Blu glass as well as having every window and door replaced to reduce energy bills.

The Gap:

https://www.lancerregister.com/attach...1&d=1520500111

https://www.lancerregister.com/attach...1&d=1520500111

I would really appreciate advice and how I should proceed. – I have arranged a meeting at my house to discuss with the manager my concerns but I would like to be more informed about quality standards and workman ship standards for conservatories.

Many thanks in advance.

Nas

[Gavalar]

Roof is a global roof . The bars attach to ring beam (metal bit on top of windows )threw a pre drilled hole this don’t not enable bar to be tapped over to the wall . In pic I can see ring beam is not same width as frames that meet the wall . It should be exactly the same width . There is a soaker Chanel that lead fits into on that end bar . So water runs down Chanel then onto gutter . It’s important to seal where ring beam meets wall and I also seal where gutter stop end meets house to stop water running down and inside . If window are 3 m ring beam should be same width .

[Gavalar]

Lead work should be a minimum of 150 mill in height from the bead

[Gavalar]

When u look out of upstairs window does the bottom of the glass panes appear to be inline with next pane . If it’s staggered then roof could be out of square . Then fitters silicone the top of glass whet it goes into the socket or ridge at the top .

[Gavalar]

Can u send more pics please is the glass sitting in evenly or can u see edge of of unit spacer bars .

[NasEvo]

Thanks Gav for the quick response, please see below.

Originally Posted by Gavalar

Roof is a global roof . The bars attach to ring beam (metal bit on top of windows )threw a pre drilled hole this don’t not enable bar to be tapped over to the wall . In pic I can see ring beam is not same width as frames that meet the wall . It should be exactly the same width . There is a soaker Chanel that lead fits into on that end bar . So water runs down Chanel then onto gutter . It’s important to seal where ring beam meets wall and I also seal where gutter stop end meets house to stop water running down and inside . If window are 3 m ring beam should be same width .

So the beam should be longer so that the pre drilled hole is closer to the wall?

Originally Posted by Gavalar

Lead work should be a minimum of 150 mill in height from the bead

I'll measure this when i get home.

Originally Posted by Gavalar

When u look out of upstairs window does the bottom of the glass panes appear to be inline with next pane . If it’s staggered then roof could be out of square . Then fitters silicone the top of glass whet it goes into the socket or ridge at the top .

All except the last plane (closest to the house) are square, I noticed the last plane offsets increases as is reaches the ring beam, i'd estimate if we say zero offset at the top by the time it reaches the ring beam there is about 3-4mm difference.

Originally Posted by Gavalar

Can u send more pics please is the glass sitting in evenly or can u see edge of of unit spacer bars .

Definitely when i get home tonight i'll take more pictures to confirm.

For the time being here's a couple more picture of what i do have.

https://www.lancerregister.com/attach...1&d=1520505793

https://www.lancerregister.com/attach...1&d=1520505793

Thanks for your help I really appreciate it.

[NasEvo]

From the offset 2 picture, The gap between the metal piece and the wall (Under the ledge where the lead sits, is open and is letting in a lot of cold air in to the conservatory on both sides. I'm guessing this is due to the length of the ring beam being 15mm too short and because of where the pre-drilled hole is or is it the norm to silicone the gap from the inside as seen in the gap picture from my first post?

[Gavalar]

In pic two it shows bar this has slip down . Only thing stopping bar moving is nut which slides into Ali Chanel underneath it . Ali bar , Ali bead and plastic internal trim are all same length . This shows that the Ali bar itsaelf has slipped down as it appears longer . The other pic shows white clip on right hand side this is a glass stop it stop glass form slip down . Filling these Chanel are bad as any water can’t run out of Chanel . In second pick u can see glass has bigger gap on left then pain on right . And I can see spacer bar of glass I beleave not covering correctly with bead . Logically unless house is majorly out of level plum what ever gap u have between ring beam u should have at the top . I e ridge . I beleave they have pulled ridge right to wall at top making it out of square . U can usually easily visually see this on the sealed unit spacer bar . Imagine putting to cards next to each other then pushing tops over at the top . Easy way is to put a square on ring beam and the white bar . If u don’t have one u can literally use a sheet of paper or a square piece anything . I believe I have a global fitting guide I will take some picks . In one picture I beleave I can see spacer bar of sealed unit . When inside u will see black at bottom then it will slowly disappear as it reaches the top . And reverse on other side on that pain . Ali ring beam and ridge have pre drilled holes in at correction manufactured widths . So these can’t be moved . This is y beam and frame should be same width . On a dead level plum house of frame is roughing wall . Ring beam touches wall and starter bars and ridge touch wall . In same principle if house is dead level and plum if ring beam is short 15 mm then bar and ridge should also be 15 mm to keep roof square . Occasionally house are out and roof need packing off or frames need packing off . But as said frames should not be longer then ring beam . I honestly think when u put a square on bars it will be out of square . Ridge needs packing off from wall . Bars need pushing up and tightening . Silicone needs removing . More pics from inside please . U can check square by doing a 3 4 5 If u get me

[Gavalar]

U may find they measured roof shorter due to render which makes sense just check squareness mate , I would not be overly concerned about ring beam as it makes sense . Visually glass should be sitting evenly as it sits in between each bar

[Gavalar]

U can tell as the brown glass drip should sit the same distance up from bottom of bar in your pic right hand unit is lower then lest suggesting ridge needs packing off from wall slightly to square . When u put paper on glass socket at bottom where ring beam is , line it up on the glass next to bar on the wall . It will probably ope up as it goes up the glass

[Gavalar]

More pics of full length of bars so I can see how glass is sitting . Ali bar sits correct distance in one pic but house wall pic u can see bar has slid down lower . This is Because bolt does not go through bar it slides in the Chanel

[Makes]

That leadwork is terrible

[Gavalar]

Lead as said is bad . Lead seal on right and cement on left

[Gavalar]

In pic one of original post I beleave I can see spacer bar of unit meaning unless u spacer all way up ( ie it square and glass needs moving over ) roof it out of square as it’s sexound bar it actually means ridge is pushing out an gap u see on ring beam needs to be bigger . Only way water can come out of nut as it’s a Chanel is if it gets behind glass bead as no coverage and drops on to the internal plastic which covers Ali bar then run down into ring beam Chanel and only escape is through nut hole

[Gavalar]

Feel free to look on web site your roof is a synseal or global both same but diff supplier it will show u section . If company are being complete ***** I might be able to help but I’m near Heathrow . 26 years of window and conservatories