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HKS GTII KAI 7460 Limits

27K views 96 replies 27 participants last post by  kim 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

According to my reads here and on different Forums, the HKS GTII (even the KAI version) is a very efficient turbo (spools very fast, very responsive and 500hp capable) BUT...yes, there is unfortunately a but...it is fragile.

There are numerous of failures seen in UK, France, Germany etc...

I Blew one of them (in my case, that wasn't a turbo failure: a MAF problem caused an overheat that broke the "porcelaine" (I don't know the english word for it, it is the white part of a spark plug), so the spark plugs parts came across the turbo and broke it...)

We opened the turbo and found that the internals were very very thin. So EGT must be checked if you don't want the turbo to melt...(I've always thinked that from 420+, EGT must be monitored and are nearly as important as AFR...)

We also know that this turbo doen't like too much boost for hard track use.

I think it would be helpfull for a lot of users (of people who have a choice to make) to group here what are the limits, the threshold in:

EGT:? 850?

Road Use:
Boost (torque revs) :1.9?
Boost (high revs) : 1.6?

Track Use
Boost (torque revs) : 1.6?
Boost (high revs): 1.5?

(figures over are just my opinion but not a certainty)
 
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#4 ·
I've mapped quite a few now and tend to peak them at around the 1.9-2 bar region but drop them away to hold 1.6-1.7(ish) at the rev limit.

The ones I've done also seem to like quite a bit of ignition timing as well which is where I think a lot of the problems with heat come into it.

If you map them as per a conventional remap and just keeping adding timing until you get knock etc. then you will probably end up with good figures on a rolling road but you're running the risk of high EGT's so I tend to have a limit as to how much timing I like to run with them regardless of whether I'm near the knock limit or not. I also like to run them richer than a 'normal' remap as well in order to help with EGT's.

I don't know what limits the EGT's are as I've not measured them when doing any of the ones I've done but I know that you could push them well beyond what I've mapped them to if you really wanted to at a risk of higher EGT's.

It would be interesting to see how many people with failures were also running pops'n'bangs (or similar) as they too increase the EGT's quite significantly in comparison to normal running.

Andy
 
#7 · (Edited)
Yes it helps ;)

Pops and bangs increase the heat, and can very quickly increase the EGT up to 1000 degres, exhaust are becoming red and turbos melts...

I don't use any pop's and bangs or bang bang in order to stay safe

Thank you Andy, your comments are helpfull ;)


So, after also reading wellground experience, we can think that heat cis a serious reason of their failure
 
#20 ·
car isn't finished yet. With the end of grinding, the car will be totally in january I think.

Parts are M800 Ecu, don't have any EGT gauge, the EGT sensor is connected to M800 that correct in real time ignition or/and boost

(just know the theory, my mapper is a Motec expert he is the maker ;) )
 
#25 ·
I have Oil pressure
But not fuel (98RON standard fuel soft map)

When you have a low fuel pressure alert, it's nearly always too late no?

Low fuel would increase EGT, so the M800 will put a security.

Am I wrong?
Yes but it is very fast event and EGT has a small delay. It is useful to log fuel pressure because you can see if it is close to a problem. But also if it does go pop then you have evidence of why. Too much data is better than no data so use every input you can.
 
#30 ·
It's quite profound the drop in egt's even a couple of degrees away.
Alot of the damaged turbos we see are due to mappers that think they are leaving cars safe by leaving the spark maps retarded :blah:
Not aimed at anyone in particular on here btw, but I can say all the turbos that have a bad rep eg, FP Green are fine in the hands of a pro tuner that knows what tf they are doing and has a feel for where the the turbo is happy. We get zero issues from these guys, it's always the DIY guys that **** them up and expect us to pick up the pieces :thumbdown:
 
#46 ·
It's not my business Andy. That said, I'll happily advise anyone who I believe to be well equipped and competent!
We sell a lot of Evo turbos, I can't wet nurse the people fitting them can I?
All I can do and we do is support the issues that present them selves, the vast majority of these being avoidable.
 
#48 · (Edited)
No I do understand that. I also know your a business so I do understand that!

Was just asking the question really.

I've never had a FP so can't comment. I have had a HKS and went well with no issues to report. However CPP did disable the Anti Lag as they was kind enough to give me a good warranty with the unit itself.

You hear stories of people like MAD pushing the boost to well over 2.0 bar so for reliability would you suggest a full kit is superior to most bolt on turbos as you don't seem to hear many of the full kits failing for whatever reason.
 
#52 ·
No I do understand that. I also know your a business so I do understand that!

Was just asking the question really.

I've never had a FP so can't comment. I have had a HKS and went well with no issues to report. However CPP did disable the Anti Lag as they was kind enough to give me a good warranty with the unit itself.

You hear stories of people like MAD pushing the boost to well over 2.0 bar so for reliability would you suggest a full kit is superior to most bolt on turbos as you don't seem to hear many of the full kits failing for whatever reason.
Its not all about boost it is about turbo shaft speed also.

Mark
 
#49 · (Edited)
Here's a question .....how many standard say, evo 8mr or 9 turbos have failed running loads more boost than standard.? Is it me but I don't see many threads:confused:

Loads of 8/9 turbo running 1.7-2.1 bar....don't hear as many failures as aftermarket bolt on turbos running the same boost...or am I wrong here?
 
#51 ·
What you will find over a period of time you will get customers that come to you and let you know their experiences.

You will hear good and bad about everybody from the best to the worst, but eventually patterns appear and you learn where issue start and come from.

It would be down to the customer to share their experience though not us as they could be Chinese wispers.
 
#56 ·
It's very cam and spec dependent what power it will make. ~430-450bhp would be a decent result IMO.
Personally I don't think the HKS is a bad turbo it will be fine if set up professionally by some one who can see the car is making good power at say 1.6 bar (for example) and the gains at 1.7 bar are so small they can see they are pushing the limits of the turbo, so leave if where it's happy :)

I've heard it so many many times where the customers trying to tell the mapper how much boost they want to run! It's like wtf whos doing the job!!:crackup:
The "feel" aspect of tuning cars is something that only comes with experience as everyone will be slightly different. Personally I have a lot of admiration for the good guys in this game:smthumbup
 
#54 ·
I personally think as well it,s what the car,s going to be used for, mine,s just a road car and in all fairness only has little blasts as that,s all you can do road usage so I have no problem or do I worry Mark peaked mine @2bar, now heavy track usage yes, totally different, out here for 20min sessions or so, lots more heat etc etc
 
#74 ·
But running such high boost/shafts speeds is not right, just because it doesn't fail.

It is like having a boiler that happily heats the house and slow kills you with carbon monoxide.

The quest for power from essentially cheap turbo is getting silly.

You very rarely see this topic on this forum about my HTA/GTX/CEA (insert turbo here) blew up and it is because with these they are being spec'd to a purpose
 
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