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Aftermarket ecu child's play

7K views 40 replies 17 participants last post by  keithmac 
#1 · (Edited)
Obviously to a guy with this fantastic background and clear intellectual capabilities such a statement is very understandable. Those who are 8n the aftermarket tuning would most likely agree to an extent or completely... more and more o.e.m sophisticated features are moving to aftermarket slowly. Strange when you think about it :confused: but when you really think it's not very strange actually :)

Thought it was a good video worth a share:

 
#4 · (Edited)
Makes you also think when tuning stock ecu's and adjusting certain parameters, what else does it effect when there has been huge spec changes.

Also makes you appreciate those stock ecu disassembler's for having the understanding to release and mathematically calculate/define the definition's for our use. John Bank's was a Legend in that respect and many others state side.... John stands out being a MLR past active member and his stock ecu open source contributions.

At the end of the day open source o.e.m ecu mapping is used at your own risk. Some definition's still aren't fully understood and some information still not unlocked. But for what is tried and tested leaves it very capable for most common applications. Expanding on what you have for logging capabilities is a good start. It will enhance the tuning abilities and maximise performance of the existing unit. However, clearly the need for aftermarket is ultimately there when wanting to simplify things for intended goal (race) which is oposite to o.e.m (road & emissions)
 
#17 ·
Learning off forums and google. Well there is just soooooo much rubbish written that it can cause more harm than good reading and then applying it.

To do this kind of work one really needs some of the following:-

Understanding of how an engine actually works
Good ability with a computer
Patience
Investment
Intelligence
Structured testing
More patience

But if you just want to make a few quid then its already proven many times over that a person who grasps only a little more knowledge than the average man and possessed with the gift of the gab can quite easily succeed for a fair while before fate catches up with him :smthumbup

There is no short cut to this. Its either something you can or can't do. Either way be prepared to sacrifice lots of time and money.

Just remember - If someone offers you a fillet steak dinner for £1, perhaps its time to take a step back and ask yourself questions.
 
#11 ·
Nope!

I learnt my trade starting back in 1987, working as an apprentice in a rolling road tuning centre in a large rover dealership. We tuned rover V8 jag V12
American cars (thanks Rodley motors) rally cars and drag cars along with mainstream road cars.

I studied at Bradford motor vehicle college. Passing 3 years of motor vehicle craft studies city and guilds with distinctions, then moving onto motor vehicle technicians city and guilds passing with distinctions and credits
I also attended engine management courses at Bradford motor vehicle college
Studying and building engine management systems as running bench examples for diagnostic and tuning purposes.

Back in the late 1980's it was mainley carburettor, mechanical and electronic ignition systems. I can tune Su and other constant velocity carburettors European and Japanese. Webber DCOE, DCNF from scratch
American Holley carbs from scratch.
Banks of DCOE on v12 and v8 aswell as 4 cylinder rally cars.

In the early 1990's electronic engine management systems became main stream oem. I attended lots of Rover/Honda courses and Hyundai courses to study their systems

In the early 1990's I used to tune DTa ecu's MoTeC and oem ecu's with tuneable chips using emulators

EFI101 was a course provided by dyno dynamics because my dyno was delivered late in 2005 after ordering in 2004.

I have the ability to tune classic and vintage cars as well as more modern stuff
The EFI101 course back in 2005 just confirmed stuff I had already studied, learnt and experienced years before.

That's just the engine calibration part of my qualification and experience.
I have studied other sectors, engines, manual transmissions, automatic transmissions, chassis and suspension ect ect

As you have questioned my qualification and experience
I have to ask what is your qualification and experience?

Kind regards
Matt
 
#10 · (Edited)
I don't know to be honest... is there something wrong with the efi101 course as it has been highly recommend to me by various people? Even other tuners Inc some at AMS have said good things about it and proudly use it in their credentials. Furthermore there are other traders that have learnt from evom.net and Google. Doesn't matter where you learnt in my opinion, it's how you obsorb that information and conduct your work that matters. Shame the training school of bitter*******s.com cesed operation... so we're left with a select few with those specific qualities :D
 
#14 ·
No aftermarket ecu even comes close to some of the latest OEM ecu's.

Modelled airflow, modelled turbo speed, modelled cylinder pressure not to mention how sophisticated closed loop control is.

But then, takes a team of 15 guys just to recalibrate base parameters for the R8 to run the DSG.....

Aftermarket are a doddle in comparison.....bang closed loop lambda and knock control on and it takes a real moron to blow something up these days!!
 
#19 ·
I started bodywork at the age of 16... that is a similar trade in the fact either you can do it or you can't. I'm talking proper bodywork, after 6 months I knew I was one of those "who couldn't do it" and my boss said at least I admitted it. Just didn't have that feel with my hands where the pros can feel imperfections with their eyes closed, running their hand down a panel.
 
#21 ·
#24 ·
Definitely agree with this book as a good base reading although some of it is out of date now with more modern advances.

Makes you also think when tuning stock ecu's and adjusting certain parameters, what else does it effect when there has been huge spec changes.

Also makes you appreciate those stock ecu disassembler's for having the understanding to release and mathematically calculate/define the definition's for our use.
It took me over 2 years to disassemble the early evo code and that was with a lot of help. It included learning assembly language from scratch as well as just simple stuff like hexadecimal mathematics. It's a very time intensive process but if you put the work in then it also becomes very rewarding, especially when you start writing your own code routines and seeing them work.

The bit you mention about adjusting certain things affecting other parts is the main reason that I don't map Evo 10's on Ecuflash because IMO the oem ECU has never been completely disassembled in terms of what it does and there are a hell of a lot of interactions between lots of areas within it therefore you can't be 100% sure that when you're playing with one part it won't affect or modify some other area that hasn't been deciphered yet.

To give you an idea of how much more complex the later ECU's have become, the evo 1/2/3 code is a mere 32kB in size and even within that there are a lot of blank spaces and around 10,000 individual lines of code. The Evo 10 code is 1MB so you can imagine how many lines of code that contains that need to be disassembled.

Starting from scratch is probably an easier alternative than trying to disassemble a 'modern' oem ECU.

Andy
 
#25 ·
Thanks for the brilliant replies on this thread guys :) my dad done a motor vehicle technician course through his college days and my brother completed a motorsport engineering qualification at university, so I picked up some info from them over the years. I will see financially how far I can go with it and will start on the paper backs. My first class room course is Feb if all goes well for introduction to EFI... Even if I think I know certain things I want to be sure it's the correct practices I'm adopting so will start from the bottom.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Trying to start from basics and not feed my brain too much all at once... from an engineering aspect Rick's book looks good (*prob something newer needed). My neighbour is an expert with all the diesel and specific vag tuning and I often talk to him about it. It helps he supplies diagnostic equipment as he's always willing to lend me any items I need :)
 
#41 ·
I know people frown on Megasquirt, but I built my own ecu from scratch, fitted fuel injection and a supercharger to my Mk2 16v Golf and tuned that from scratch.

Very worthwhile project and it tought me a lot about efi in general (came in handy at work too).

As has been said, as long as you take your time and work up gradually it's very difficult to get an engine to let go.

These modern OEM ecus are a work of programming art, amazing how it's come on over a relitively short period of time!.
 
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