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Old 17-01-2017, 21:37   #61
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Originally Posted by stu8 View Post
No, the very bottom pulley, lowest 1, similar to the pics I posted



Stu


Have you a pic of one fitted ? Sorry mate unsure of what's what with pulleys there appears to be 4/5


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Old 17-01-2017, 21:54   #62
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Originally Posted by danb87 View Post
Tester indicated my 330cca en battery had an output of 255cca

that make sense?
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Originally Posted by stu8 View Post
yep, not good

Up to you now, but i'd be testing the alternator output, so voltage across the battery, just to make sure its right. Assuming it is, i'd be returning the battery to the supplier to get tested and replaced

if you dont need the car as a daily, you could take the battery off, charge it with the ctek till fully charged, let it stand for several hours not connected to anything, then retest it with the snap on

Assuming your alternator is working correctly, and so the battery was near fully charged when tested, 255 out of 330 isnt great, especially for a near new battery. Add to that the boot relocation means there is greater voltage drop due to distance, the cca is more important to you than it would be if the battery were in the engine bay

Taking the battery off and charging with the ctek, letting it stand for half a day or a full day, then testing again with the snap on, will eliminate all other factors that maybe draining the battery or not charging it correctly, when you do the test

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just to add, 330 cca for a boot relocation battery to me seems too small, standard evo size battery output. Once you relocate to the boot you really need a bigger battery. It maybe ok in the warmer weather, but IMO its not big enough for this time of year

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Guys, please bare in mind that CCA values are temperature dependant, at 2degC the CCA could be 35% lower that stated

Random google link http://www.autos.com/car-maintenance...-cranking-amps temps are in Fahrenheit !
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Originally Posted by grants View Post
Very strange. Check that the COP kit has not been connected to a permanent 12V supply

Any thing might be possible
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Originally Posted by danb87 View Post
how would that happen ? theres only 2 plugs on it, ? Surely they couldn be round wrong way?
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Originally Posted by stu8 View Post
My guess is, the hazards flash due to the voltage drop when you are cranking.

I just cant see how the cop can cause an intermittant starting issue

Stu
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Originally Posted by danb87 View Post
i gave just tried to get a pic but i can't get enough light to get a decent pic. its the alternator one i need to pic isn't it, the one towards back of engine left side
Hi everyone,

There's some great points made in this thread and then a couple off track. Stu8 is on the right track for sure and has some great advice. I totally agree that 255CCA is terrible and is completely related to your starting issue.

The fact that it has a COP kit is irrelevant and complete coincidence that this starting issue was noticed at the same time.
Grants, the fact that it starts and runs well 3 out of 4 times tells you that this has nothing to do with the ignition. So please do not make wild statements about some wiring issue especially when you post that you are confused, it does not help here.

Dan you said you had the battery is only 4 months old but you also mentioned to me that your Evo sat for a few months. I think this is part of the issue.

A question for you.
What gauge wire is used for the run from the boot to the engine harness?
If anything under 2awg, you will experience voltage drop to the engine harness/starter and the alternator will not be able to charge the battery correctly.

My advice would be to install a known battery with at least 400cca and drive for a few days and come back to us.

It's excellent that the grounds have been mentioned and highlighted here as any circuit is only as good as it's ground.
The ground from battery to chassis should also be no smaller than 2awg and should be connected to chassis with a properly crimped ring connector and attached to bare metal. Smear die-electric grease on to the bare metal to protect it and this will also increase continuity.

The chassis grounds where the harness secures in many places throughout the engine should also be considered and these are imho are poor. With bat disconnected, all the grounds can be removed and where they're attached to body can be cleaned back to bare metal, smear of grease and reconnected.

The chassis needs to be thought of as one big ground point as these smaller grounds need to get all the way back to the ground on battery to make a perfect connection for current to flow with the least resistance. The more resistance, the less current will flow.

Let me know how you get on with the new battery Dan

Best regards,
James
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Old 17-01-2017, 22:09   #63
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Hi everyone,

There's some great points made in this thread and then a couple off track. Stu8 is on the right track for sure and has some great advice. I totally agree that 255CCA is terrible and is completely related to your starting issue.

The fact that it has a COP kit is irrelevant and complete coincidence that this starting issue was noticed at the same time.
Grants, the fact that it starts and runs well 3 out of 4 times tells you that this has nothing to do with the ignition. So please do not make wild statements about some wiring issue especially when you post that you are confused, it does not help here.

Dan you said you had the battery is only 4 months old but you also mentioned to me that your Evo sat for a few months. I think this is part of the issue.

A question for you.
What gauge wire is used for the run from the boot to the engine harness?
If anything under 2awg, you will experience voltage drop to the engine harness/starter and the alternator will not be able to charge the battery correctly.

My advice would be to install a known battery with at least 400cca and drive for a few days and come back to us.

It's excellent that the grounds have been mentioned and highlighted here as any circuit is only as good as it's ground.
The ground from battery to chassis should also be no smaller than 2awg and should be connected to chassis with a properly crimped ring connector and attached to bare metal. Smear die-electric grease on to the bare metal to protect it and this will also increase continuity.

The chassis grounds where the harness secures in many places throughout the engine should also be considered and these are imho are poor. With bat disconnected, all the grounds can be removed and where they're attached to body can be cleaned back to bare metal, smear of grease and reconnected.

The chassis needs to be thought of as one big ground point as these smaller grounds need to get all the way back to the ground on battery to make a perfect connection for current to flow with the least resistance. The more resistance, the less current will flow.

Let me know how you get on with the new battery Dan

Best regards,
James

hi james, just to confirm yes car was sat for a while but a new battery was changed. this was back in July an was replaced with the exact same battery but new.

will try an source a bigger battery an give that a go next!
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Old 17-01-2017, 22:27   #64
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hi james, just to confirm yes car was sat for a while but a new battery was changed. this was back in July an was replaced with the exact same battery but new.

will try an source a bigger battery an give that a go next!
Ok sounds like a plan.

Do you know what size cable has been used for the relocation?
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Old 17-01-2017, 23:01   #65
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Ok i just heard back from Dan on this and he is running 3awg cable for this long run.
I wanted to update this as this comes up often seeing the battery relocation is so popular.

Stu8 has got excellent knowledge here and some great info was posted & i agree completely on all fronts. I'll stand corrected if the battery is not the main reason of the starting issue.

The cause of it being the issue is most likely the incorrect cable size for this application.

Dan has sent me a message and tells me 3awg cable has been used. This has too much voltage drop for the length used. The 4th start may be related due to the higher resistance in this cable when hot.

My advice is:
1. Replace the battery to at least a 400cca rating. The size of battery will depend on how often the battery is going to be used with the engine off and for how long.
2. Replace the 3awg power source cable to 2awg or even better 0 awg. If you do not have a set of crimpers to make secure connections with this size cable, get an electrician to do it for you. Get some crimp on ring connectors and make sure they are 100% secure. If they're not 100% secure i.e crimped, they will have unwanted resistance.

Here's a couple of pictures that may help people with this for future reference.
Info sourced here http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?







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Old 18-01-2017, 07:25   #66
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Have you a pic of one fitted ? Sorry mate unsure of what's what with pulleys there appears to be 4/5


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Ignore the red circle and arrow (was edited for a different post) its the large black bottom pulley in the pic

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Old 18-01-2017, 07:33   #67
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thanks stu, going to confirm this cable rating this morning, its 35mm2 need to see the rating on it though once its light.

got the 3awg in my head but i could be wrong!
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Old 18-01-2017, 07:35   #68
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Just to add, if you are going to try a bigger battery, dont just go a little bigger, if you are going to have to make a new tray, get a decent sized battery in there, then you wont have to worry about batteries again, regardless of temp or how long the car is stood for, only the natural lifespan of a battery

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Old 18-01-2017, 07:37   #69
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Just to add, if you are going to try a bigger battery, dont just go a little bigger, if you are going to have to make a new tray, get a decent sized battery in there, then you wont have to worry about batteries again, regardless of temp or how long the car is stood for, only the natural lifespan of a battery

Stu
have you any recommendations?
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Old 18-01-2017, 07:38   #70
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thanks stu, going to confirm this cable rating this morning, its 35mm2 need to see the rating on it though once its light.

got the 3awg in my head but i could be wrong!
I think 35mm2 would be 2awg (not sure though)

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Old 18-01-2017, 07:41   #71
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have you any recommendations?
hard to say without knowing what space you can make for the battery, then its a case of googling batteries and looking at dimensions to suit, keeping an eye on cca values, higher is better

Obviously you dont need something huge but a decent sized battery intended for a large engined diesel car would be my choice

You dont need to worry about a battery being too big or too powerful, that isnt an issue in the slightest

As its in the boot, you could also consider large Gel type batteries, but they will be double or tripple the price

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Old 18-01-2017, 07:44   #72
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Dan has sent me a message and tells me 3awg cable has been used. This has too much voltage drop for the length used. The 4th start may be related due to the higher resistance in this cable when hot.
Hi James,

just to confirm cable is 35mm2, does not have an awg on it.
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Old 18-01-2017, 07:45   #73
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hard to say without knowing what space you can make for the battery, then its a case of googling batteries and looking at dimensions to suit, keeping an eye on cca values, higher is better

Obviously you dont need something huge but a decent sized battery intended for a large engined diesel car would be my choice

You dont need to worry about a battery being too big or too powerful, that isnt an issue in the slightest

As its in the boot, you could also consider large Gel type batteries, but they will be double or tripple the price

Stu

Not got an issue getting another tray if it will solve the issue, will just need to get the battery in advance. an have one made again for the correct size!
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Old 18-01-2017, 07:55   #74
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Not got an issue getting another tray if it will solve the issue, will just need to get the battery in advance. an have one made again for the correct size!
Ok, well, any bigger battery will be better, remember to check:

physical size - can you make it fit
terminal orientation - do the terminals need to be a certain way round for the cables to reach
cca - higher is better

just a quick google for bosch batteries

https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.u...FVS4GwodM_oB1g

but there are so many to choose from, you can find 1 to suit your needs

Reason I mentioned gel batteries is they offer higher cca figures for smaller size, they are expensive. Also being in the boot, gel batteries dont need to be vented. But I tried small gel batteries under the bonnet and wasnt a fan, it would need to be a decent sized gel battery, ie physically bigger than the battery you have now

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Old 18-01-2017, 08:09   #75
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https://www.puretyre.co.uk/car-batte...ication-chart/

Might help narrow it down for you

Stu
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