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-   -   Oil Temps on Track c130'C (https://www.lancerregister.com//showthread.php?t=380951)

super rover 19-07-2011 20:52

its all well and good fitting a bigger cooler but thing is you only having issue when out on track ,thing is if the coolers that big it may not allow the oil to warm up enough for general day to day use ,just a thought

james evo 19-07-2011 21:18

Millers 10/60 and Castrol Edge can handle 150c just a thought :smthumbup

anttist 19-07-2011 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by super rover (Post 4046516)
its all well and good fitting a bigger cooler but thing is you only having issue when out on track ,thing is if the coolers that big it may not allow the oil to warm up enough for general day to day use ,just a thought

That's why there is a thermostat in oil flter housing that opens around 95 degrees (I may not remember the temperature exactly) and lets oil enter the cooler. Below that oil cooler is bypassed.

GUM EVO 20-07-2011 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by anttist (Post 4046763)
That's why there is a thermostat in oil flter housing that opens around 95 degrees (I may not remember the temperature exactly) and lets oil enter the cooler. Below that oil cooler is bypassed.

:smthumbup

dimitrisviii 20-07-2011 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedlegend (Post 4046310)
ive always run near that temp on track! apparently a good synthetic oil will take temps up to 150c:rolleyes: thats why i change oil after every track day but hey thats up to you?

+1
i always see 130-135 C even at winter trackdays which is normal for fully synthetic oils.
Just for reference all cars that have oem oil temp gauge the red line is at 140-150 c.(lancia deltona,306 rallye.m3 etc)Don t confuse the oil temp with the water one.Plenty of cars are working at+100 c the water.
I had research this subject and found that good 100% synthetic oils 5w40 are ok at 130 c,by oil factory datas.
Another point is that if you change gears a bit lower(ie 6600-6800rpm) you can see 5-7 c less than change gears at 7500 rpm(stock turbo evo8)

MAD7BOY 20-07-2011 19:55

Hi chaps, thanks for all the responses. I've been away with work so not had a chance to check the thread until today. So thanks to everyone who's posted.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevolution6RSII (Post 4045893)
Because your sensor is at the filter housing and his at the back of the engine/sump :)
There is about a 20 to 30 degrees difference between those two !!

Indeed, I think that the big temp differences quoted will be because some people are measuring at the filter plate, and others are measuring at the sump plug. If you're getting filter temps (130) at the sump, then that's probably a big problem!! So I think we need to make sure we're comparing apples with apples before worrying about the temps of some being significantly higher than others.

The main thin to focus on is that the temp on track is 30-40'C higher on track than it is on motorway, that's a big increase, hence my concern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUM EVO (Post 4045959)
With a stock oil cooler the temps you are mentioning are normal for very hard use... simple solution is upgrade oil cooler. However those temps soon drop if you allow cool off right?

The temps come down SIGNIFICANTLY when I run my cool down lap. At bedford the lap (southwest circuit) was about 1.5mins (estimate) and a cool down lap maybe 2.5min? Temps would drop from c130'C to c105'C in that cool down lap, so I didn't need to leave it idling in the pits for too long before shutting down.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedlegend (Post 4046310)
ive always run near that temp on track! apparently a good synthetic oil will take temps up to 150c:rolleyes: thats why i change oil after every track day but hey thats up to you?

I think I need to get in touch with Opie or Silkolene to find out what temp the 5w40 can be run to safely. (I don't want to go to 10/60 as it would be too thick day to day.)
Quote:

Originally Posted by super rover (Post 4046516)
its all well and good fitting a bigger cooler but thing is you only having issue when out on track ,thing is if the coolers that big it may not allow the oil to warm up enough for general day to day use ,just a thought

As others have said, I think there's a bypass that allows it to get up to temp. (Of course using the gauge I can make sure the oil is warm enough before giving it boost!)

MAD7BOY 20-07-2011 20:10

4 Attachment(s)
Right, my Dad's very kindly taken some photos of the car for me, see below.

First is a comparison of the Damd bumper fitted to my car, vs a Stock E8 bumper. You can see the intake is much smaller.

Seccond is a ruler to show the size of the intake. I kind of hoped that although the 'hole' iteslf is smaller it does have a kind of recessed 'scoop' type shape which could funnel air across the bumper into the hole?

Third is the view of the rear of the arch liner, showing the existing holes we'll try to open up.

Fourth is the view behind the arch liner. You can see in this pic that when we fitted the bumper we had to get rid of the OEM air guide, which takes air from the bumper to the cooler, since it wasn't compatible with the new bumper. We fitted a custom air guide (aka a cut off from a plastic box!) to guide air. I think it works ok for day to day, but it's not good enough on track, so we could probably make this better, to reduce the amount of air that can leak past it.

We've come up with a few ideas to try (thanks to you guys!)
  1. Remove a section of the arch liner (cut a big hole behind the cooler to make a 'hatch') then hold this section back in with cable ties for day to day, but remove the whole hatch on track. [More air out]
  2. Cut a flap in the underside of the undertray ahead of the cooler. I'm imagining 3 cuts to make a square/rectangle shape with the 4th side still attached, and that attached side being towards the rear. This will make a flap I can fold down to 'scoop' air passing under the car to bring it in. (I like this idea as it will be cheap, and it doesn't involve cutting up the front bumper) [More air in]
  3. Fit a cooling guide/plate/something to funnel air more directly onto the cooler, to stop it going around the sides/over/under. [More effective use of the air we have]
  4. Remove a section of the front bumper (or make slits to peel it back) to open it up and allow more air in the front. [Even more air in, but at the expense of cutting the bumper]
  5. Buy a new oil cooler. [Even more efficient use of the air, but bigger cost]

In some ways I think that getting a new 19 row cooler (Cheers to HEL for the PM/Quote on that) would be the 'simplest' solution because it just needs to be bought and fitted.

HOWEVER another part of me thinks that the 'cheaper'/'free' solutions of making mods to get more air through COULD potentially be even more effective? (As in, a great cooler with crap airflow will still not cool well.)

Cheers for the ideas, I think I have a reasonable plan on how to proceed but any other thoughts/ideas are always welcome. Cheers again. :)

GUM EVO 20-07-2011 22:10

I think you won't see any difference other than maybe quicker cooling on your cool down lap. You are just at the limits of the stock cooler as most other evos experience the same temps as what you have seen when on the extreme limits. I believe the oil to be totally safe at those temperatures in all honesty and fitting a bigger cooler is your only option to bring your temps to optimum (100-120c).

Regards,
Gum

GUM EVO 20-07-2011 22:16

Also nothing wrong with the bumper it is designed too direct the air through those openings in a sort of RAM style and should have adequate cooling capabilities for your car.

MAD7BOY 28-07-2011 19:27

Right, I've had a pretty good quote from Ben at HEL Performance for a 19 row cooler with a cowl and air pipes.

I reckon I should be able to connect the two 76mm diameter air pipes to the rear of the two holes in the bumper. I may be able to use duct tape to get an air tight seal. This will mean that 100% of the air in through those holes will flow into the cowl and through the cooler.

Also plan to remove a section of the arch liner. Will cut a rectangle section and then hold that in place with cable ties whilst on the road, then snip the ties and remove the section whilst on track.

So in summary:
More air in? No I'll not be making the holes bigger or any new inlet holes.
More air out? Yes, I'll be making a hole in the rear to let more out.
More air through cooler? Yes, the cowl will mean that more air flows through the core.
More efficient use of air? Yes, the new cooler will have a more efficient core.

I just need to get the arch liner out and have a proper crawl under the bumper at the weekend to be sure of the section I'll remove, and ensure there's space to run the cooling ducts from the bumper to the cooler. (I'm sure there would be space as stock, but as the bumper is not stock and I already have cooling ducts running from near the intercooler to the brakes I need to make sure I can run round them.)

If all goes well I'd like to get something ordered at the weekend as I have another trackday in a couple of weeks!

Rab & Helena 29-07-2011 11:26

I've always been led to believe that oil temps need to reach 100deg to evaporate any water moisture from the oil.


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