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-   -   Sprinting Ideas... (https://www.lancerregister.com//showthread.php?t=539894)

Ross W 08-09-2017 21:53

Sprinting Ideas...
 
It was a sad day at Cadwell when Darin announced MLR sprinting was cancelled for the for forseeable future...
The series has been such a great asset to the club and I'm sure everybody involved personally has enjoyed it, so I'm just struggling to understand what is wrong with the series?
As a company we have sponsored for many years and I thoroughly enjoyed being involved.
Some people think it's because the value of our cars is increasing so don't want to risk damaging them and others argue it's because the series became so competitive & expensive to be competitive.
Unfortunately it's always going to be a little bit like that with any non-one make series but the fun factor was always there regardless so I'd like to throw out for discussion what was really wrong with the series or if there is any way of resurrecting it for the future.
Just trying to understand if it's really dead because nobody is interested or if there is some way of taking things forward?
What does everyone really want from it other than a cracking day out testing yourself and your car against your pals.

evo_luver 08-09-2017 22:35

Darin asked me to compete a few times and tbh the reason I didn't as I just didn't see the attraction of single laps. For the same price you can do a full OPL trackday and learn more about you and your car over 60 laps over a day plus get instruction etc.

I am sure sprinting has its place but that's the reason it never attracted me.


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Trev-the-Rev 09-09-2017 08:46

I've been sprinting for around 17 years - the last 9 of which in my Evo in MSA events. Personally, the MLRSS has never really appealed to me for two reasons. The first is the geographical spread of the series and the second is the relatively limited variety of cars you are competing against. I realise that both of these factors are inherent to the series, but felt I should share my own reasons for not doing it. Nevertheless, it is sad to hear of the series demise.

Ross W 09-09-2017 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by evo_luver (Post 5811556)
Darin asked me to compete a few times and tbh the reason I didn't as I just didn't see the attraction of single laps. For the same price you can do a full OPL trackday and learn more about you and your car over 60 laps over a day plus get instruction etc.

I am sure sprinting has its place but that's the reason it never attracted me.


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Track days are for sure a great way of getting a lot of seat time, but having done both I don't think you can really compare the two.
The buzz you get from competitive Motorsport I have personally never got on a track day. I'm sure the competitive side isn't for everybody but just my own personal opinion.

super rover 09-09-2017 13:36

im SHOCKED to see it go ,what a waste of all the time and hard work thats gone in to it

i just think theres many reasons why its failed ,not every one has desire to compete ,many buy and fund these things on a shoe string these days so cant afford break downs or failers ,never mind look after and service the things properly ,and many are simply garage queens and polished to death
for me id have done more but they never fell in line with rallys ive been doing .but ive allways said theres was NO cheaper way in to competative motorsport in an evo ANY where

but it not just the MLRSS ,i scruttineer quite few msa sprints and hill climbs ,some numbers playing out make me wonder why clubs actually do it ,some events we used to see 100+ with non stop action getting 4 or 5 runs in a day ,now some events only get 40 some hills even less where they can see 8 to 10 runs ,with folk being home for tea at a sensible time

Evo6er 09-09-2017 13:49

I honestly think it's down to locations of the sprints. There's none in the south, and if you take into account how many owners there are in Surrey, Kent, Essex, Sussex etc events at Oulton & Cadwell are just too much of a punt to get to. The series could be split north/south regions with the winners going head to head in a midlands event. I know a lot of EVO owners who track there cars but Snetterton and Silverstone is probably as far as they would bother to venture north.


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wizzzbang 09-09-2017 14:22

As mentioned above. Not enough of these in the home counties.

As for the time on track. Could we not have a flying lap system. You get an out lap, a timed lap and an in lap. This also reduces the chances of wreaking your clutch/drive train.

nwwil 09-09-2017 14:31

i think the only way we will have sprints are if we all pay up front, when we have amount of drivers paid to cover the day and then find a venue.

leeslancer8 09-09-2017 15:09

I used to be put off by it been too clicky

My current car wouldn't be competitive but I would have liked to have had a go to improve my driving.

Could more be done a novice group maybe who have limited sprint experience?

Some of the older faces I have met have been great and incouraging but as mentioned before feel like some look down their noses if you havent got 20-30k plus tied up in your car.

Ads9 09-09-2017 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeslancer8 (Post 5811658)
I used to be put off by it been too clicky

My current car wouldn't be competitive but I would have liked to have had a go to improve my driving.

Could more be done a novice group maybe who have limited sprint experience?

Some of the older faces I have met have been great and incouraging but as mentioned before feel like some look down their noses if you havent got 20-30k plus tied up in your car.

With the utmost of respect, being the newbie into any group can feel daunting and any group can come across as clicky if said group doesn't make an extra effort to introduce themselves. At a general meet they're more likely to but at an event where people have limited time to prepare their car and catch up with people they do know I think that is to be expected, sadly.
When I'm able to go to meets I do *try* to say hello and introduce myself and others but a bit of effort from the first timer doesn't go amiss. Dan and Dave as RO's both make a fair effort with members and new faces at their events.

I've not competed and as already mentioned the location tracks puts me off being southern.
Rising car values must be a factor. Although I do wonder if there's any relation to the reduction in the number of MLR trackdays? Ive only ever been to one MLR track day at Brands and it was great, had I not sold that car I suspect I'd have done more and possibly got into sprinting... I've not had the opportunity or time with the current Evo but I do wonder if trackdays can give you the bug and it goes from there?

peeler 09-09-2017 19:23

I don't think it was the location as many sprints have been sell outs previous but couldn't make the numbers over the last couple of years

As said I think it's lots of things not just 1, Evo's are getting rarer, the cost of running them is very high and lots of the above points

I've personally had some great years doing the series met lots of good people and had a ball , I stopped purely down to finances but if I lived on the mainland I would of still been doing it.

Not sprinting paid for me to take my kids to Disney so I'll be doing more things with the kids :angel:

wozzy 09-09-2017 19:56

I blame mitsi. They haven't made a decent car in 10 years now ( some would say longer if you forget the X ). How can you have a MITSUBISHI sprint series with no new decent mitsubishis

markmec 09-09-2017 19:57

Locations and travelling were my issues, along with my twins arriving and work.

However if Ross supplies me a car I'll be back 😎😂

I have been doing trackdays recently and tbh I understand the "competitive edge" isn't quite the same, however seat time on a trackday is a massive amount more per and I make my own competition. 😬

I would be back in heart beat though if funds allowed, always loved evos and as most know I've had a few (16). 😂👍🏻

Evo6er 09-09-2017 20:21

I don't see how EVO's are getting rarer with the amount that have been imported over the years. I've never seen so many lately!


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Moley 09-09-2017 20:22

Again, for me it's location. Being in the South East my 'local' sprint was a 3 hour drive away.

evocop4 09-09-2017 22:32

Facebook hasn't helped. I am not on it and don't intend to be. The last meet I attended was at autotroque and the spread was 2/1 Facebook owners. Need to get people back on forums and get the appeal going again. I have spoken to a few owners who aren't in the club and don't know what it is about.

I banded an idea a few years ago with Darin and kenny about a sprint off. I got brave and said I would get close to kenny with no track experience. I am an advanced police driver and have honed my skills chasing many a stolen Audi BMW and Subaru and wondered if I could transmit that to the track. I would still give it shot but understand kenny is no more?

Instead of being one dimensional with the sprint have a couple of hours of track time thrown in and may appeal to a different crowd. I have never done it so am as guilty to its demise but as a previous thread of mine shows I do use mine and would come along if closer or better incentive.

a1axx 10-09-2017 06:57

Sprinting Ideas...
 
I enjoyed it, didn't matter about being competitive really as I was using my Clio 197, 1100kg and 200bhp lol. It was a lot of fun doing combe. Like others have said, it would be cool if it was more of a timed session type event. Qualifying- time attack whichever you like to call it!

Is it realistic to do that? More seat time but ultimately more cost of running. Is there a reason it specifically had to be one sprinting lap to make it viable for non msa cars and non license holders?

Cheers


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rob2.2 10-09-2017 07:47

A few factors for me as to why I haven't had a go:

1st -
I like my drivetrain to much to launch it repeatedly.

Make everyone run a msa beam breaker at a set height. Set the start position but have the start beam 100 meters further up so no need to launch the car and a rule you cant launch it to make it even.

2nd-
I dont have a trailer to tow the car to events so if launching and pushing it to the limit and if I went wrong I have no way of getting home without a big bill.

3rd -
Location
I live on the south coast and cant afford to do 2 day weekends with stop overs in b&b's to attend sprints. Doing them in a single day would be dangerous due to travelling times

4th
Value for money, id sooner do a open pit lane day rather than a sprint, for me its all about seat time and enjoying the car for as long as possible. Not a quick expensive thrill

5th
How competitive the series got, my car would of been in class D but is not even close to spec of the likes of liddy, phill reed, norris, kenny etc


I went to combe 4 years ago to watch the sprint and thought it was fantastic, the machinery was great, the action was non stop, I was hooked and wanted to have a go and watch more.

Idea -
Time attack is now linked with car shows to give the public more to look at, like the cadwell show could each round not also be a all make japanese car show included.

I know thats alot to organise but you already have the venue sorted so get banzai/jap peerformance mag involved for publicity, a bit of extra support to set out club stand locations etc

Might even get more guest class cars entered also from other clubs.

Will get more revenue from public entry and display tickets

Makes it more appealing to sponsors

Trade stands on the day could also raise more money

Static show and shine competition

Make it a car show with a sprint :) 5 rounds at known tracks/locations.

StefanUK 10-09-2017 08:13

Set it out like time attack so you actually get more seat time ,one lap is over in 2 minutes and then it's another half hour or so before your back out I think trackdays are far better value for money , even do like 15 min gaps for certain classes all cars go out and see who sets the best time etc

evo_luver 10-09-2017 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by evocop4 (Post 5811771)
Facebook hasn't helped. I am not on it and don't intend to be. The last meet I attended was at autotroque and the spread was 2/1 Facebook owners. Need to get people back on forums and get the appeal going again. I have spoken to a few owners who aren't in the club and don't know what it is about.


Going backwards will kill the MLR, in my view we should be exploiting Facebook not avoiding it if we are going to appeal to the next generation of owners. Since creating a Regional page on FB our local membership has doubled, I just mirror what's on the MLR on FB and vice-versa, takes some effort but it pays off.

Forums are dying, we have to move with the times.



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evo_luver 10-09-2017 08:22

Sprinting Ideas...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2.2 (Post 5811799)
A few factors for me as to why I haven't had a go:

1st -
I like my drivetrain to much to launch it repeatedly.

Make everyone run a msa beam breaker at a set height. Set the start position but have the start beam 100 meters further up so no need to launch the car and a rule you cant launch it to make it even.

2nd-
I dont have a trailer to tow the car to events so if launching and pushing it to the limit and if I went wrong I have no way of getting home without a big bill.

3rd -
Location
I live on the south coast and cant afford to do 2 day weekends with stop overs in b&b's to attend sprints. Doing them in a single day would be dangerous due to travelling times

4th
Value for money, id sooner do a open pit lane day rather than a sprint, for me its all about seat time and enjoying the car for as long as possible. Not a quick expensive thrill

5th
How competitive the series got, my car would of been in class D but is not even close to spec of the likes of liddy, phill reed, norris, kenny etc


I went to combe 4 years ago to watch the sprint and thought it was fantastic, the machinery was great, the action was non stop, I was hooked and wanted to have a go and watch more.

Idea -
Time attack is now linked with car shows to give the public more to look at, like the cadwell show could each round not also be a all make japanese car show included.

I know thats alot to organise but you already have the venue sorted so get banzai/jap peerformance mag involved for publicity, a bit of extra support to set out club stand locations etc

Might even get more guest class cars entered also from other clubs.

Will get more revenue from public entry and display tickets

Makes it more appealing to sponsors

Trade stands on the day could also raise more money

Static show and shine competition

Make it a car show with a sprint :) 5 rounds at known tracks/locations.


I completely agree with all of this, but especially the part about launching. I simply don't have the funds to repair the drivetrain which will break and the parts are becoming rarer on older Evo's.




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Ross W 10-09-2017 08:49

Some really interesting points there. Its great to hear everyones points of view :thumbup:
This year the regs took a massive change in direction. I can see Darin's point of view trying to get back to the series' roots, but it has developed (rightly or wrongly) as a very competitive series. The times are way faster than all others running at same venues.
This year most of the die hard fans struggled to get to grips with the new regs which ended up having a negative effect on entries.
Personally I'm not ultra competitive but love the buzz the sprints give. I had ine of the best days ever sprinting this season at Castle Combe in a very simple spec car I co-own with Lidy. We both battled against each other all day pushing to the limit. I didnt get any trophies but simply had the sort of fun its impossible to recreate on a trackday.

KNOXVILLE 10-09-2017 09:16

People will always make excuses.

I wanted to sprint and drove everywhere all over the country to compete. To and from every event, sometimes doing over 500 miles in a day.

Never broke anything either.

One of the main reasons people don't enter is they feel they will be uncompetitive or fair badly. Everyone wants to win don't they?!

Shame it's gone this way, met some great lads over the years.

Unobtainium 10-09-2017 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by evocop4 (Post 5811771)
Facebook hasn't helped. I am not on it and don't intend to be. The last meet I attended was at autotroque and the spread was 2/1 Facebook owners. Need to get people back on forums and get the appeal going again. I have spoken to a few owners who aren't in the club and don't know what it is about.

I banded an idea a few years ago with Darin and kenny about a sprint off. I got brave and said I would get close to kenny with no track experience. I am an advanced police driver and have honed my skills chasing many a stolen Audi BMW and Subaru and wondered if I could transmit that to the track. I would still give it shot but understand kenny is no more?

Instead of being one dimensional with the sprint have a couple of hours of track time thrown in and may appeal to a different crowd. I have never done it so am as guilty to its demise but as a previous thread of mine shows I do use mine and would come along if closer or better incentive.


You're right. It seems everyone is on Facebook these days. As everyone knows, it's free and it has a great private chat facility so it's always going to have an advantage over the forum. I very rarely see the MLR in the newsfeed on there. Only now and again with the odd photo. Advertising is the key and gone are the days when you could just rely on people coming to you as a sprint organiser. You have to go to them and show them what's on offer. Unfortunately Facebook is the best way of doing that.

Your last idea is also a good one. These guys already do it:

http://www.mazdaontrack.co.uk/blyton...2017-641-p.asp

Combine the half trackday concept with rolling starts (as many fear smashing their drivetrain), more advertising on Facebook, open the series up to all cars like Javelin has (yes I know Darin doesn't want to do that but you'll get more Evos and Scoobs attending anyway, but whilst not make a financial loss), and get rid of the ridiculous 2017 rules (go back to the 2013 ones), and suddenly the sprint series will be back. It's worth a try.

As for Kenny, haven't you ever seen Southpark? Unfortunately for you lot Kenny always was, and always will be. Some say he has a adamantium skeleton just like Wolverine, but the truth is....he's made of Unobtainium. ;):handsup:

Steviej 10-09-2017 10:48

Quote;
Idea -
Time attack is now linked with car shows to give the public more to look at, like the cadwell show could each round not also be a all make japanese car show included.

I know thats alot to organise but you already have the venue sorted so get banzai/jap peerformance mag involved for publicity, a bit of extra support to set out club stand locations etc

Might even get more guest class cars entered also from other clubs.

Will get more revenue from public entry and display tickets

Makes it more appealing to sponsors

Trade stands on the day could also raise more money

Static show and shine competition

Make it a car show with a sprint 5 rounds at known tracks/locations.

This is very much like the SLS events are run at Knockhill with shows and other attractions along side the Sprint event which is similar to time attack with rolling starts and timed sessions, also classes are power to weight based which really makes the competition close and fair.
Personally I'd love to compete at a similar event at some of the classic tracks like Cadwell or Oulton without the major expense of doing TA
I realise there is a huge amount of organising too but it would be a shame to lose the MLR events, have a look at some of the SLS footage here.
www.facebook.com/SuperlapScotland
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eb1Ok1JNvlY

evo_luver 10-09-2017 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by KNOXVILLE (Post 5811821)
People will always make excuses.


I think that's harsh, "excuses" are genuine reasons in most cases, not everyone has the funds.



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evocop4 10-09-2017 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unobtainium (Post 5811837)
You're right. It seems everyone is on Facebook these days. As everyone knows, it's free and it has a great private chat facility so it's always going to have an advantage over the forum. I very rarely see the MLR in the newsfeed on there. Only now and again with the odd photo. Advertising is the key and gone are the days when you could just rely on people coming to you as a sprint organiser. You have to go to them and show them what's on offer. Unfortunately Facebook is the best way of doing that.

Your last idea is also a good one. These guys already do it:

http://www.mazdaontrack.co.uk/blyton...2017-641-p.asp

Combine the half trackday concept with rolling starts (as many fear smashing their drivetrain), more advertising on Facebook, open the series up to all cars like Javelin has (yes I know Darin doesn't want to do that but you'll get more Evos and Scoobs attending anyway, but whilst not make a financial loss), and get rid of the ridiculous 2017 rules (go back to the 2013 ones), and suddenly the sprint series will be back. It's worth a try.

As for Kenny, haven't you ever seen Southpark? Unfortunately for you lot Kenny always was, and always will be. Some say he has a adamantium skeleton just like Wolverine, but the truth is....he's made of Unobtainium. ;):handsup:

Still willing to let me have a shot?! I thought u had changed your user name.

I for one would be up for the rolling starts. I learnt the hard way wrecking my first clutch launching at 30-130 and santa pod. 7-1/2 years it took me to have the funds to replace it. Life happened.

Maybe it needs rebranding, get magazines involved and invite others along in guest classes or run manufacture classes and have a shoot out at the end. The FOS has a huge audience with the final times shoot out. Need to open it up.

davie-evo4 10-09-2017 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by KNOXVILLE (Post 5811821)
People will always make excuses.

I wanted to sprint and drove everywhere all over the country to compete. To and from every event, sometimes doing over 500 miles in a day.

Never broke anything either.

One of the main reasons people don't enter is they feel they will be uncompetitive or fair badly. Everyone wants to win don't they?!

Shame it's gone this way, met some great lads over the years.

This^^^

I was the same, doing over 800 mile round trips to come last at most of the sprints lol.

Apart from 2 engines, 2 gearboxes, 3 clutches, 1 rear diff and a few other things I never had a problem with breakages. :lol:

Like the idea putting it on with a show and also the SLS up here have got it spot on I think with rules as earlier mentioned.

Ross W 10-09-2017 12:17

One idea I sugested to Darin, was the possibility of a series with lower number of rounds say 3 or 4 rounds.
1. 2015/2016 regs, top 3 results count.
2. Competitors commit to full season up front (some how)
3. Decent prize fund for each class from sposors, so if you come in top 3 you can cover a good bit of expenses for the season.
4. Winners from each class go to a shootout to decide the overall champion.
Driving a car none of them are familiar with. (Fully insured)

Thoughts?

davie-evo4 10-09-2017 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross W (Post 5811861)
One idea I sugested to Darin, was the possibility of a series with lower number of rounds say 3 or 4 rounds.
1. 2015/2016 regs, top 3 results count.
2. Competitors commit to full season up front (some how)
3. Decent prize fund for each class from sposors, so if you come in top 3 you can cover a good bit of expenses for the season.
4. Winners from each class go to a shootout to decide the overall champion.
Driving a car none of them are familiar with. (Fully insured)

Thoughts?

5. RossW give massive discounts to all sprinters, especially drivetrain parts.

:handsup:

Ross W 10-09-2017 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by davie-evo4 (Post 5811863)
5. RossW give massive discounts to all sprinters, especially drivetrain parts.

:handsup:

Personally I think it's a bit of a myth!
I can count on one hand the number of drivetrain failures I've seen at the sprints in all the time I've been involved.
I agree it does give rise to an increased risk but in reality the cars cope with it very well and there's nothing better than a big launch off the line to get the adrenaline going :lol:

That said we could put it to a vote to see if people want to launch or would prefer a rolling start.

davie-evo4 10-09-2017 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross W (Post 5811864)
Personally I think it's a bit of a myth!
I can count on one hand the number of drivetrain failures I've seen at the sprints in all the time I've been involved.
I agree it does give rise to an increased risk but in reality the cars cope with it very well and there's nothing better than a big launch off the line to get the adrenaline going :lol:

That said we could put it to a vote to see if people want to launch or would prefer a rolling start.

Aye even tho I posted earlier about failures it was basically the one car that I had problems with, I used 4 different cars and all the others were fine.

To put it in to perspective, I once bought a 2nd hand twin plate, set of single discs off you and a set of XP8's off Ian and they lasted me 2 seasons of sprinting, in fact they were still decent parts and I sold them on when I upgraded.

rob2.2 10-09-2017 12:48

I see the post replying to mine about superlap Scotland all held at knockhill.

What about a sprint series based at one circuit/airfield with 4/5 rounds throughout the year.

Based in the midlands so everyone can attend.

Also means you know the circuit and get better each event.

Include the show side of things also to raise revenue in terms of ticket sales, sponsorship and publicity

a1axx 10-09-2017 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross W (Post 5811861)
One idea I sugested to Darin, was the possibility of a series with lower number of rounds say 3 or 4 rounds.
1. 2015/2016 regs, top 3 results count.
2. Competitors commit to full season up front (some how)
3. Decent prize fund for each class from sposors, so if you come in top 3 you can cover a good bit of expenses for the season.
4. Winners from each class go to a shootout to decide the overall champion.
Driving a car none of them are familiar with. (Fully insured)

Thoughts?



Sounds complicated, and doesn't address the suggestions


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MidnightE6 10-09-2017 13:43

Tegiwa have some sort of civic cup series.

Parts are governed what can and can't be used, all similar spec cars and all pretty much on a even scale.

Ross Sport Evo series... :smthumbup

Ross W 10-09-2017 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1axx (Post 5811879)
Sounds complicated, and doesn't address the suggestions


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Point taken, the point of the thread is for people to give their opinion in the hope to work out where it's gone wrong and if there is any way of taking things forward.
This is merely one of my sugestions, the main point being the series would need a full grid to be viable. I think there was a fair few rounds where undersubscription meant that the club made a loss on the event and this is one of the biggest reasons why it has now finished.
Having organised a few events myself you always get lots of people saying they will come but when it gets to the day probably 30 to 40% of the people expected actually turn up. Hence if there is a possibility to reserect the series it woukd need firm pre season entries.

a1axx 10-09-2017 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross W (Post 5811885)
Point taken, the point of the thread is for people to give their opinion in the hope to work out where it's gone wrong and if there is any way of taking things forward.
This is merely one of my sugestions, the main point being the series would need a full grid to be viable. I think there was a fair few rounds where undersubscription meant that the club made a loss on the event and this is one of the biggest reasons why it has now finished.
Having organised a few events myself you always get lots of people saying they will come but when it gets to the day probably 30 to 40% of the people expected actually turn up. Hence if there is a possibility to reserect the series it woukd need firm pre season entries.



My take on it, having raced karts professionally for about 9 years, is that the buzz I get now from my hobby is unfortunately about 70% building it and about 30% actually going on track days. Track days are boring, no crowds and no thrills. Unless I've just done something that I'm testing out, it's just monotonous!

I done the Combe round of the sprint this year, although I wanted more seat time the buzz was back. Running up to the timing screen to see where I'm at and how I'm doing, you start forgetting about what I can build better at home, and start just driving around problems!

I think that you have to look at time attack, it's more expensive than ever, and it's pulling more competitors in, as far as I know!

It's well publicised, and it's on busy show days which pulls the crowds in.

It's not as simple as saying okay lets just do that.. however if I can help at all with a Facebook group to get some hype going I would help for sure!

Of course I'd be reaching out to a large Clio community, somehow I'm a mod on one of the biggest groups! The markets out there for track dayers and show goers, just a case of trying to reign them in to some competitive fun!!


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Phil2333 10-09-2017 14:12

Just a question....regards other sprint series,hasnt the mlr one shrunk,whilst the javelin sprint series has got bigger?...am i wrong?

Are they doing something different?

a1axx 10-09-2017 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil2333 (Post 5811891)
Just a question....regards other sprint series,hasnt the mlr one shrunk,whilst the javelin sprint series has got bigger?...am i wrong?



Are they doing something different?



I guess it's aimed at everyone and publicised


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a1axx 10-09-2017 14:15

I've literally just had a message from a guy interested in the sprint series, he thought it was Combe only and only for race license holders! This is part of the problem, people know nothing about it


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